To think men should automatically pay on a first date if they asked you out?

[ThisSnappyNewt]

Had a date recently - he asked me out, picked the place, and at the end said “Shall we split it?” I did but it left a bad taste. I just think if you’re the one initiating the date and doing the inviting, you should offer to pay - man or woman but especially if you’re the guy. It sets a tone. AIBU to think it’s just good manners and a red flag if they don’t?

I would say though it depends on how the date came about. If we meet online I probably would not even notice splitting the bill.

If he had been pursuing me / was massively into me I would be more taken aback if he wanted to split the bill.

But as I said this rarely happens so it’s a moot point!

Generosity is a quality I highly value in people, so I would want him to at least offer. If I didn't want to see him again, I'd counter offer to split the bill. If I did, I'd accept him paying and offer to pay for our next date.

You were only underwhelmed by the date when he didn't offer to pick up the tab?

Replying to your original comment before the edit said: But if it’s about “energy” and wanting to show that you’re thoughtful and intuitive and genuinely interested, surely that translates to doing your fair share of the asking out and therefore your fair share of the paying? Most good men also want thoughtful, intuitive, genuine partners who bring the right energy to a date - and those that don’t aren’t the ones you want to be dating. If that’s what you’re looking for from a partner, you need to be prepared to bring the same yourself

I totally agree that thoughtfulness and effort should go both ways and I bring a lot to the table in relationships. But I also think initiating a first date carries a different kind of energy. If someone asks me out, chooses the place, and sets it all up, then I’d expect them to offer to cover it - just like I would if I were doing the asking (even though I tend not to).

I think people can want mutual effort, without everything being a perfect 50/50 split every step of the way. It’s more about complimentary dynamics than identical roles.

@JHound agree and I would go down a similar route

So if you're not doing the asking, and not doing the paying, where exactly is your "effort" coming from? What are you bringing to the date aside from you?

Not at all - the bill was just one moment that made me take a step back. It wasn’t about the money itself but how he handled it - no warmth, no initiative, no real interest. It just confirmed that we weren’t aligned in terms of energy or values. The date as a whole felt flat and that moment kind of summed it up.

Last time I went out on a first date - several years ago - he said "I would like to take you to XXX for a meal". I therefore expected him to pay.

If he had asked me to split at the end of it, I wouldn't have been happy.

We did carry on seeing each other for a while and we went 50/50 after that including when DD was with us (his choice).

Exactly. @ThisSnappyNewt was clearly doing this guy a massive favour just by turning up and letting him be seen with her in public.

But she's not a gold digger according to @nodramaplz even though she never pays her way on a first date.

Basic manners if you invite someone out to dinner is that you pay, male or female. The invited person may choose to decline you paying and say let’s split the bill instead but it’s rude to invite somebody for a meal and have the expectation that the bill will be split. It has nothing to do with whether either person is male or female.

The only exception to this is when it is a group social occasion in which case generally it is expected that everyone will pay an equal share of the bill.

100 million per cent agree. But you will get lots of shade thrown on you on here for saying this @ThisSnappyNewt

If a man asks me out, he has to impress me and show me he's worthy of me. Mr 'let's get my calculator out and pay individually for what we had' can get tae fuck. He wouldn't get a second date from me.

Being present, engaged, warm, open, and intentional is effort - especially on a first date. I show up looking nice, I hold conversation, I’m respectful of someone’s time, and I bring genuine interest and energy to the table.

It’s funny how effort is always reduced to paying the bill but meaningful connection isn’t built off who tapped the card. I just believe if you’re the one initiating and setting the tone, making that gesture is part of showing intentionality. That doesn’t mean I don’t bring anything - just that I bring something different and it’s no less valuable.

Maybe he felt the same and would have paid had the date been a better one.

I'd have said we were going 50/50 well before he had to bring it up.
The tradition of men being the ones to pay doesn't fit with my expectations at all. Men footing the bill is something my grandma would have expected.

just think if you’re the one initiating the date and doing the inviting, you should offer to pay - man or woman but especially if you’re the guy

I just think you should be prepared to pay for yourself I you’re going out to eat and drink.
It sets the tone.
It’s just good manners.

Yanbu

Of course they should bloody pay

I accidently clicked YABU, I mean YANBU, sorry.

Etiquette dictates that the person who asked for the date - the host - should be the one to pay, regardless of gender.
Sadly, many people have forgotten these rules that used to govern society and often worked well.
You are, however, also supposed to mirror what your host is having, so it's rude to order lobster if they are having a salad, or order lunch when they are just having tea and cake.
So if you did this, which some people do, he would be being perfectly reasonable to ask for it to be split or even for you to pay for what you had, because you went outside the realms of what he was inviting you to/hosting for you.
If not, then he was BU and it would be a red flag for me.

Oh if somebody said “I would like to take you to XXXX for a meal” the I definitely would assume they were paying.

A 'gold digger' does not go out with tight fisted men, who work out what they have had, to make sure they don't pay for anything their 'date' has had. Golddiggers go for rich men with flashy cars and proper wealth. Not Dave the Admin worker, who's on £27K a year, drives a Ford Focus, and makes her pay for herself.

Men like this only believe in equality when it comes to women paying for themselves too. It NEVER extends to pulling his weight around the house or with childcare. Men like this are always shit in bed too. Boring and selfish.

It takes two people to bring the energy and conversation.
You’re not reducing it to a man having to pay for your time and interest.

If you didn’t feel you both aligned and there was no future then why on earth should he pay for your dinner??

I find it quite odd anybody would go out for a meal in a restaurant for a first date. Surely better to meet someone in a less intense setting where you can escape easily without it dragging on for hours, if it becomes very boring or it becomes apparent there is not sufficient attraction or compatibility for it to be worthwhile pursuing it further?

Of course not. Very sexist to think a man should pay.

goodness. ok

Sounds like he reached the same conclusion.

I'm a grown woman. I'd pay half or at least offer to.