To think men should automatically pay on a first date if they asked you out?

[ThisSnappyNewt]

Had a date recently - he asked me out, picked the place, and at the end said “Shall we split it?” I did but it left a bad taste. I just think if you’re the one initiating the date and doing the inviting, you should offer to pay - man or woman but especially if you’re the guy. It sets a tone. AIBU to think it’s just good manners and a red flag if they don’t?

I’m certainly not a child, and I’m not interested in a man to “look after me”, nor “financially invest” in order to gain “access to my body”.

I’m an autonomous adult with my own finances and ability to dictate my own life, I’m not interested in being bought.

Marriage is a joint discussion surely? Why would men control everything? Just because someone asks, you don’t have to say yes. I’d never ask someone to marry me out of the blue, like every important decision in a relationship you would discuss it first. I think of relationships being a partnership, not a tussle for control, that doesn’t sound healthy.

Sorry, CBA to read all the replies but am staggered by the balance of women who expect to be paid for in this situation, whether you were asked out or not.

Is this old-fashioned, sexist treatment really what you want at the start of the relationship? In my experience, this 'traditional' behaviour in men is the flipside of much more toxic sexist behaviour later on.

I’ll ask a man out with little hesitation. I’ll ask ask a man to come to bed if the chemistry is right.

No one is saying you’re a child. Do you not like men holding doors, walking on the outside of you, giving you their coat when you’re cold? I do. Don’t get me wrong I’ve encountered plenty men who don’t, but honestly I’d rather be single. I go on dates to be courted and feel valued, adored and cherished. Men go on dates because they enjoy female company and how you make them feel.

A marriage should be a partnership and that’s exactly how I see it but I think what you’re failing to acknowledge is men think very differently from women. They’re thinking “Great I found someone who’s happy to pay halves”, that’s it. They don’t go 50/50 as they believe in fairness and equality for women, they do it so they don’t have to invest in you.

But why do you need to be financially “invested in”??
Why is it always financial? Why isn’t about what you can gain financially?

On average young women earn more than young men these days, the obligation for men to pay for the cost of dating doesn’t make any sense anymore.

I hold doors open for anyone coming up behind me man or woman or child, why does a man have to walk on the outside? My husband and I do random nice things for each other but I am not a puppy I don't need to be cared for

I am only speaking for myself but I don't need to be 'looked after'

Women under 30 are outearning men their own age on average (it flips after women have kids). So by that argument women should pay.

Yet 20 something men still expected to fork out to pay for dates for women they don't know.

I would absolutely expect to pay my own way on a first date. If they suggested somewhere too expensive for me I would insist on changing to somewhere more affordable.

What do you mean “what you can gain financially”.

I’d be happy with a cheap date it’s not about getting a £10 plate of food. I buy presents and am very generous and that’s what I look for in a partner. It’s very off putting someone especially a man who asks for 50/50 straight up when I know I am very generous. It means there’s no courtship from 50/50, it’s all about them doing the minimum, or at least that’s how it feels.

My friends always buy me nice thoughtful gifts and sometimes I pay sometimes they do. The dynamic is different with these type of men they tend to be more selfish so you can’t expect them to act like your girlfriends ever and buy you thoughtful gifts so some boundaries and expectations is not a bad thing for these men. They’re not great to date is the bottom line.

As for young women out earning men. Dating is a luxury, not a male entitlement. I feel sometimes women make a great deal of allowances and excuses for men that other (the well brought up ones) wouldn’t. We know this is a fact and does happen. I heard this was the reason they were trying to do away with jury’s for rape trials in Scotland, as women are more likely to make excuses for men like they’re children whereas men are more lightly to decide their guilty as they know fine well what they’re doing.

I keep repeating men know it’s just saving them money. They know it’s not chivalrous, they’re not stupid and they’re not feminists. If you still choose to date someone like this, that’s your choice. Do you think they’ll be doing 50/50 housework and childcare and do you think these men if a women owns an expensive house they want to move in do you think they’ll be offering rent on top of their 50/50 increased bills? Nope but you’d be paying that in theirs, boot on the other foot. I’ve encountered a few of these men they just take, it’s a red flag. I’d rather a man paid for a McDonalds or starbucks than choose an expensive restaurant that he wants to go to and expect me to pay half the bill at the end. It’s the height of bad manners. You wouldn’t do that to a girlfriend without a discussion about where you’re going’s and knowing that the expectation is you’re going 50/50 or your or theirs treat.

Have any of you women been asked out and had them tell you prior they like to go dutch? Bet not because they know it’s grim. Just ask them “your treat”? “are you buying”. Don’t waste your time if they can’t spare £5 for a coffee.

I think there's a conflict between him playing the traditional role when it suits him, asking you to a set place of his choosing rather than a more equal "would you like to go somewhere, do you have a preference?" approach, and then being all modern man when it saves him a few quid. It's funny isn't it, that out of all the aspects of equality, the ones men seem to adopt with the most enthusiasm are those that mean they get more advantages and are required to contribute less.

And maybe those young women would like it to stay that way and thats why the birth rate is falling

I can’t help but wonder if those who think the male should always pay on a first date are the very same people who look upon sex as something a woman gives to a man⁉️

Whoever asks for the first date should be the one who pays for it, IMO.

It clearly is “Well brought up men couldn’t get access to women’s bodies in the past without marrying them. This is what you’re choosing to not acknowledge men tend to only value what they invest in.”

GET ACCESS!?

Totally agree and more women can see it now too and thats one of the reasons why the birth rate is dropping.
I would much rather go to Costa or go for a walk I would actually feel too nervous and uncomfortable in a fancy restaurant with someone i didnt know Thats if i even wanted to use a dating app Thats not for me either even if i was single.

And i dont like this multi dating until you are exclusive bollocks either. In any other situation it would be called cheating

I want a man to at least offer to foot the bill on a first date. If there is second date potential, I offer to pay for that. If not, I'd refuse and go halves. Same as I want him to offer to walk me to my car. I might not take him up on it, but I'd want him to offer. And hold doors open for me. But this is probably why I'm single.

It can’t be “cheating” (a term more appropriate for sport) if both parties are happy with the situation.

My husband and I are in our 40s and come from the era of the man always pays on the first date. So much so, we gave our son our bank card to pay when he took his gf on their first date (he forgot his phone and wallet he was so wracked with nerves). No piss taking, just reasonable. Both our sons have been brought up with this view as well.
However, I know everyone sees things differently and may have different ideas and views now. May be an idea to discuss before the date? Or during? If either of my lads agreed to split, then that’s entirely up to then and their girlfriends.

Im 51 and can assure you i never expected a man to pay for me!

Eh?

“Access to a woman’s body without marrying”? I thought I’d misread this. What on earth is access to a body? A woman’s body does not have a gate or a PIN number. And plenty of people have had sex outwith a marriage. Including well brought up men (and women). Sex should be about passion not access.

I’m well into my 40s and the same here.

I ALWAYS paid my way on a first date. That way they couldn't "expect" anything at the end of the night (unless I wanted it to)

Except there’s still a pay gap between men and women. 🤷🏼‍♀️

I would expect for him to pay the first date if he initiated and chose the restaurant, but I would cover the next one.