To have cut off my friend who stayed in an abusive marriage

[TheIvyRestaurant]

I had a friend, let’s call her Kate - she met a man about 12 years ago and got pregnant very quickly, after 3 months. They decided to make a go of it, and from about mid-way through her pregnancy I noticed his red flag behaviour. Then things got worse when she had the baby and he moved in. They then had another DD about 2 years later and they got married a few years after that. I could give hundreds of examples of how he was emotionally abusive but here are a few:

• Kate was “allowed” to come out for drinks with me (I eventually was her only friend as he alienated her from so many people) but only during the day - she had to be back at 6pm so she could do bedtime as he couldn’t cope apparently. I’m not talking babies - this is when their DDs were 6 and 8. One night we were having so much fun we lost track of time and realised it was 6.15pm. She had 9 texts from him saying she had “failed at her task” and “failed as a parent” because “you know that I can’t do bedtimes so the girls are now going to be up really late thanks to you putting yourself first”.
• She had to go term time only at work because he can’t look after his own children for full days while she works, it triggers his PTSD. Meaning she had a lot less money. He also insisted on keeping their finances seperate, so whilst he stayed full time and would buy £900 TVs and an e scooter, she would have to forgo buying lunch at work because her salary dropped so much.
• During lockdown, things ramped up - he was beyond nasty and would text her from other rooms of the house saying “Tell those kids to STFU before lose my shit at you all” and “Can you put some clothes on, it makes me want to vomit seeing you in pyjamas during the day” and “You’d better be doing home schooling with them, if they’re then out to be thick kids it will be your fault”. He couldn’t home schooling apparently, it triggered his PTAD. She would text me these screenshots on a daily basis.
• One time we went to a local concert, and she decided she’d stay out for a drink after and stand up to him. He wasn’t happy and was demanding she come home but she put her phone in her bag. A few hours later, she checked her phone to find 67 missed calls and the ring doorbell showed paramedics at their door. He called 999 saying he thinks he has sepsis. He didn’t, and they soon left. But he spent months saying the stress she caused by staying out brought on sepsis like symptoms.
• He’d really have a go at her parenting. All the time. She’s an AMAZING mum, but if she didn’t have things 100% organised (like literally every mum on the planet) he’d go nuts. I was round once and he said “The girls want to go in the garden where are their hats?”. Because she didn’t instantly know and had to look in various cupboards and coat pockets, he really went at her saying “Smart mother you are - don’t even know where their clothes are”. I pointed out “Well neither do you” and the look her gave me terrified me to the point I left after that.
• Me and her went away with all our kids to a theme park hotel for the night and he was texting her having a go about her parenting - the kids weren’t even there! He’s obsessed with her “failing”. “I gave you a new routine and you failed at it. You left the house 15 minutes after we agreed. FAILED”.
• Her DDs eventually started treating her like shit. If they wanted her from another room they’d shout “Kate! Get here RIGHT NOW”. She said it’s because that’s how her DH speaks to her and they were copying

I spent a lot of personal time and energy worrying about my friend. I told her from early on to leave him, not to marry him, that’s she can do better and she’s a shell of her former self. Eventually, after another text simply saying “Guess what your latest fail has been? Go on take a guess.” (she forgot to turn the dishwasher on and he had nothing to eat his food on which apparently triggered his PTSD) she told me she wants to leave him. I supported her for the next 3 months. I did all sorts - looked around rentals on her behalf (he was NEVER gonna leave the house of his own accord and she didn’t want police involvement). Researched cheap items to but for a new kitchen. Researched women’s groups and charities that support single mums. Spent hours pouring over her rights and how to claim maintenance and the pitfalls she might encounter. Researching the cheapest forms of divorce. None of this she could do herself in case he checked her phone or caught her.

I did it to the detriment of spending time with my own kids and DH. My DH at this point was supportive but said i was too involved and it’s not my job, and pointed out my friend would post “we are such a happy family” type posts on social media and he assured me “she’s never gonna leave him you’re wasting your time”. We once fell out about it. But I persevered and was determined to get her out of there.

My uncle is a landlord and I asked him a favour to rent her a 2 bed property for a while at a cheap rate until she could find something more suitable. He agreed, letting down the person he promised it to. I was grateful and my friend was delighted she had a place to escape to.

A week before she was due to move in (she’d signed a tenancy agreement) she asked to meet me for lunch. She told me that I had been encouraging her to leave her husband for too long, pushing her into doing it and she didn’t like it and I was to stop. Because she loved him and wasn’t leaving. I asked her if her DH was making her say these things and she said “no”. I’m not sure if this is true. She said we can still be friends but I have to stop this “vendetta” against her DH.

A few days later, still heartbroken, I decided I’d had enough and her marriage had imposed too much on my own life. With DH’s support I texted her to say I couldn’t be her friend anymore. She had gaslighted me, and taken me for granted and she was on her own. I then blocked her on everything and haven’t seen her since. Luckily my uncle was v understanding and didn’t pursue her for her contractual obligations.

That was 3 years ago. I don’t talk about it because I feel so bruised emotionally from it and I tell people we drifted apart. We then moved away shortly after that (for different reasons) which made the cut-off easier.

Anyway caught up with my mum today and she said “You haven’t spoken about Kate in ages. You used to mention her all the time”. I told her the whole story.

I’ve come away feeling sick with guilt. My mum made me feel really awful - said I shouldn’t have given up on my friend and I should have bided my time before bringing it up again. That “That poor woman and those 2 girls are stuck with that vile man and you’re doing nothing about it”. My mum was in an abusive marriage (albeit a violent one as well) and said “so called friends like me” who bolted when her stories became too much are people she will never forgive or forget. That of you know bad things are happening it’s your obligation to stop them, and I gave up too soon.

FWIW. DH looks now and again on social media and Kate and her DH are still together.

I now feel so guilty and confused and second guessing my decision I was otherwise so sure about for 3 years. Please tell me MN honestly - WIBU to cut Kate off? Should I try and reach out to her? My mum gave me a new perspective and I honestly feel sick with what I did.

I think you were a lovely friend who tried to help her but missed all the signs she didn't really want to be helped. She sounded off to you a lot about her husband but couldn't leave him. Leaving an abusive relationship is really really hard and I think you thought she was stronger than she really was. Cutting her off has helped you make a boundary, I don't think you had the same boundaries are her old friends who probably blamed her for her situation, so you became the only friend she had. No doubt she would have missed you and been upset at first but 3 years is a long time. I don't see the sense in going back to this friendship now. It didn't suit you to watch her struggle and it won't suit you now. You did your best but cutting her off is OK. You couldn't cope with it anymore.

I had a very fraught relationship with my family and especially with my mom, who a victim of DV from my father for decades. She would never leave either. Her communication style was entirely passive-aggressive. This is what happens to victims. They become emotionally completely dysfunctional.

I recently re-read some of my old journals and I went back and fourth with my parents. When all was peaceful I loved spending time with them and I had the best days ever. When there were fights I could feel no worse, yet I always hoped for better. I was like a dog going back to a bad home, because I had such strong feelings about it, I guess.

Several years ago I broke contact with them completely. But reading my journals from before, I see a similar pattern to how your friend behaves.

I don't blame you in the slightest OP. It would have been nice had you been able to help her and her children. However, part of that depended on her and she just didn't have the strength to do it anymore, if she ever did. I imagine that her children will end up having a similar relationship with her that I had with my parents and that you have with your mom.

It's sad, but ultimately her abuser is the one to blame for breaking her and creating a horrible atmosphere for their children. Sadly, there is nothing you can do.

This is what I was thinking too.

You say you only had three options OP, but I disagree. You've missed the fourth option which seemed pretty obvious - message her along the lines that @MightAsWellBeGretel says.

You're entitled to want more fun friendships.
You're entitled to feel frustrated with her.
You're entitled to draw your own boundaries.
You're entitled to tell her you need to take a step back.

But you could have achieved all of the above without cutting off the only person she had, aside from her abusive partner.

Funnily enough you see it play out here on MN quite often too. Someone posts about a clearly abusive situation and they're encouraged to leave. When they don't and come back in the future, some posters give them a hard time because they haven't upped and left. Abusive relationships are hard to escape from, psychologically not just practically. If they were easy to escape, no one would stay in them!

FWIW, I don't think your actions were awful, but they show a lack of insight into abuse and the impact it has. It's very black-and-white thinking. Abuse is so much more complex, and for sure, supporting someone through it isn't a lot of fun.

Edited to add: I missed your comment about reaching back out to her now. Honestly I wouldn't. Nothing has changed and I imagine there might be resentment from both sides. Just let sleeping dogs lie.

I agree - OP went above and beyond.

I think you made the right decision and your mum has been a cow.

Exactky this!
BTW @TheIvyRestaurant how you felt after that lunch is probably the way she feels after every day/every argument with her H.

You went above and beyond to help her and she absolutely threw it back in your face. The only thing id possibly do differently is leave the door open to say you will be there if she ever does leave him but honestly you should not feel guilty.

I say this having endured a horribly abusive relationship with a man I was terrified of for 12 years. It is VERY hard to get out but you did way more than you needed to to help before and she obviously wasn't ready and maybe never will be. Possibly she drew you too far into her drama anyway, sharing so many of their texts with you.

You are not unreasonable! You sound like you were a very very good friend. Does your mum know just how hard you tried to help and just how rude she was?

Your mum is in the wrong here. You did what you had to do. I wouldn't go back to being friends either her again

A similar thing happened with a friend of mine. He was physically and emotionally abusing my friend and I was there for her. Lending her money, giving her a place to stay when she needed to get away. She left him. Then a few weeks later I saw her in his car. He wasn't there. I shook my head in disappointment and she gave me the cut throat signal. I walked away. When I came out of the shop I was in, her partner came out of nowhere, pushed me up against a wall by my throat and threatened me to stay away from her. So I did. I haven't spoken to her since. She clearly told him she had seen me and it hurt. Sometime people just don't want saving.

Oh this one is really hard. I think you showed yourself to be an amazing friend. But I also kind of agree that you went too far. I don't think she was really ready or wanting to leave him, and I think you let yourself get swept along by what you thought was best for her. Until she thought it was best for her, it was never going to happen. And when she did think it best, she'd have found ways to do it. Her "involvement" was too passive - that was a huge tell that she wasn't in the place that you thought she was. It would have been better if you had stepped back perhaps - not cut contact but kept it at a more superficial level.

That said, it is three years on, you did your best, there was no ill intent, and I don't think you have anything to feel guilty about, but equally I would leave things as they are - you cannot remake the last three years, you cut all contact with her actively. It wasn't a case of gradually letting the friendship fizzle out or fall to the back burner - you blocked her, and I can't see a way back from that. Why would she want you back in her life now?

And btw, I think it is kind of weird of your OH to be looking her up, even occasionally, and reporting back to you. Smacks a bit of "I told you so", and isn't a very nice look.

Myself and two other friends tried desperately for nearly 3 years to get a friend to leave her alcoholic DH. She was driving round in a car that had failed the MOT, wasn't taxed or insured but had to use it for the school run. Her only source of income was the family allowance as he had such an "important job" that she had to manage the family/home. He treated her like shit and eventually so did the kids. She had so much support but was just so brainwashed by him that she couldn't jump ship. I had to walk away as it was just too depressed to keep hearing her cry and say what awful things he'd done the evening before, and truthfully I started to feel that she was inflicting an awful life on her kids. I messaged her one day saying I loved her but I couldn't bear to watch another day of her life when I couldn't help her. She did leave eventually, but only when he threatened the children with a knife in front of a neighbour in a drunken rage one night, and the neighbour called the Police.... SS got involved and he was removed from the home. She wasn't really left with any choice.

I agree, but don't beat yourself up about blocking her, @TheIvyRestaurant - I totally get why you needed to protect yourself and focus on your own family.

you did everything that you could and more to help her so please try not to feel guilty. As I am sure you know how hard, it not almost impossible it can be to extricate oneself from an abusive relationship. Years of abuse erode and twist a person's sense of self and warps their world view so that they no longer know who they are and what they need and deserve. It is not in any way your fault that she was unable to take up your offers of support and help. You did the right thing in putting your family first, this horrible situation led to two families living in turmoil and you naturally chose to priotise yours. We can only do what we can do, if the other person for whatever reasons cannot accept the help we are offering there does come a time when we have to step back. I guess you will always think about her and hope that eventually she will find her way out.

You sound like a really good person and you have nothing to feel guilty about. Your mum’s reaction is disappointing but triggered by her own experience. That has nothing to do with you. If you want to reach out don’t do it out of guilt, do it because you think that friendship could enrich your life. If not, as sad as her situation is, you shouldn’t make contact in my view

Yep. Sorry OP, I think so too.

“But but but you didn’t have to cut her off!”

No. This woman is not entitled to the OP. She is not entitled to her friendship, her time, her energy, nothing. Especially not after she took and took and took and then turned toxic and tried to gaslight her and rewrite history. Being a victim herself doesn’t excuse abuse towards someone that has done so much for her, and that’s exactly what the gaslighting and rewriting were.

I would have done the same thing, OP. The only difference is that I also would have refuted her gaslighting and delusional rewriting of events because I have a zero tolerance policy for that nastiness. I agree with the poster that said she didn’t deserve you. It’s sad that she has driven away her main support, but it was also her choice to do so. She could have backed out of the plans without the lying and gaslighting.

Sorry, but this isn’t true. I was her and I left, eventually, with the support of my friends who stuck by me. I literally legged it in the middle of the night with a suitcase. Coercive control and abuse are insidious, it becomes your new “normal”. But I did leave and I never looked back.
That said op, I don’t blame you at all for what you did. I get it, with hindsight I can absolutely see, to my friends, I was honestly a nightmare. I was so gaslit and controlled, I didn’t know which way was up. He was so convincing, so totally in control that, despite the fact that he was, frankly, an abusive, aggressive, pathetic tosser, I blamed myself. When I look back I can scarcely believe it.
Since I got out, I’ve recovered and I’ve reconnected with some of those friends who felt they needed to step away. I don’t blame them at all.
Would I cut off a friend in that situation? No. But only because I’ve been there.

Ultimately people have to save themselves.

You offered help, she didn't / couldn't take it. It's not on you.

It's a tough one. Your mistake was actually getting so involved in the first place. And then cutting her off because you had done so much, it was impossible to continue the friendship.

I have a friend who seems to make really terrible decisions in men and seeing her is 50/50 whether it will be a horrible draining meet up or a fun one. So I see her a lot less. But I'm still there.

For what it's worth OP, I think you made the right decision and were right to continue to think you did.

You were at peace with your decision until your DM made you feel bad about it, because she is deflecting her own inability to leave bad men onto you.

You had no obligation to do more for your friend than you did, you were caught up for too long in her situation and it drained you. You can only help people who are ready and who are helping themselves. That she couldn't leave this bad man for her children is not your burden.

You don't have the right tools or a professional obligation to help her or other DV victims, you were just trying to be a supportive friend. Posters scolding you for not enduring more of it, or saving her the way they think you should have, have no right to be scolding you.

Your instincts were right the first time. It's not your burden.

I suspect the reason you reacted like this and why it upset you so much was because the two of you were never really in an "equal" friendship. You were the in the role of therapist/saviour and she was in the role of victim - hence why you tried so hard to rescue/help her and why its been so devastating to realise that she rejected your help.

You even said you tried to help her to the detriment of your own family. I think you need to take a step back and really consider why you felt the need to do this from an objective, non-judgemental point of view. I say this without any judgement at all but think about why you felt the need to rescue so badly. Is that a childhood script? do you feel that it is actually you who are the one who has "failed" here because you were unable to get her out of this situation? I think thats worth exploring and it might be why your mother's unkind words triggered you in such an emotional way.

You have been a good friend but you arent responsible for her life - all you can ever do as a friend is support someone and take a step back when helping them is starting to affect you negatively. You never have to help someone to the detriment of your own family - that is not right and it's not appropriate. I would have a think about this before you make any decisions in the future regarding rekindling this friendship. It's always kind to support a friend but there have to be boundaries in place, otherwise this is the kind of aftermath that can happen.

I suspect if you hadn't felt such a need to rescue you wouldnt feel so utterly burnt out now.

no You did the right thing! She would have eventually cut ties either way, he would have demanded it as you knew what he was like and he would have made the friendship end.

as someone who was in an abusive relationship both mentally and physically I cut myself off from everyone to please him, or he cut them off directly and was verbally abusive to some friends at supermarkets etc, if I had stuck up for them I would have been for it.
They have to be strong enough to leave on their own, you arranged a flat for her, you have her the tools to get away she chose not to use them, you did all you could.

it's not your problem and you should not feel any guilt.

This type of situation is so tricky. One thing you should know though is that you really do sound like an amazing friend. You went above and beyond and it was really hurtful of her to turn things around on you like that to make it sound like you were forcing her into leaving her partner so in all honestly I don't blame you for cutting off the friendship because it can be utterly draining trying to help someone who won't help themselves despite constantly talking about how bad their partners are. I do think you could of told her the door was always open to her once she was sincerely ready to leave her partner instead of blocking and making it a permanent end to the friendship. She should of apologized to you for the way she spoke to you after all of the help you put in but you definitely went into savior mode and from experience it only ends up with you being upset so it's never worth it as much as you want to help someone. The real Grey area for me though is when there are children involved and it's really obvious how much the situation is affecting them. I understand that women are victims and can be completely brainwashed by abusive men but at the same time when it comes to the physical and mental safety of your own children how could you seriously not want to get out for their sakes? Imagine all of the children out there now who are stuck in abusive households learning toxic behavior that they will eventually start coping and inflicting on people themselves...this sort of thing is where I wonder how are more mothers not being held to account for allowing their children to be caught up in it especially if you do have full support networks willing to help you leave and start again. But like I said I know it's a very tricky situation it's not an overnight fix is it. Please don't carry the guilt over your friend though you really did everything you could for her.

I think you did the right thing for you and your family. Do not feel guilt. Some people will drain your energy and never move on, despite the amount of help offered. Your old friend has to make her decisions and you have to make yours.

I'm with your mum. I couldn't cut off a friend in that situation. It also feels like she had an element of being controlled by both you and her DH. You pushed her in to leaving before she was ready and when she didn't do what you wanted you cut her off.