To have cut off my friend who stayed in an abusive marriage

[TheIvyRestaurant]

I had a friend, let’s call her Kate - she met a man about 12 years ago and got pregnant very quickly, after 3 months. They decided to make a go of it, and from about mid-way through her pregnancy I noticed his red flag behaviour. Then things got worse when she had the baby and he moved in. They then had another DD about 2 years later and they got married a few years after that. I could give hundreds of examples of how he was emotionally abusive but here are a few:

• Kate was “allowed” to come out for drinks with me (I eventually was her only friend as he alienated her from so many people) but only during the day - she had to be back at 6pm so she could do bedtime as he couldn’t cope apparently. I’m not talking babies - this is when their DDs were 6 and 8. One night we were having so much fun we lost track of time and realised it was 6.15pm. She had 9 texts from him saying she had “failed at her task” and “failed as a parent” because “you know that I can’t do bedtimes so the girls are now going to be up really late thanks to you putting yourself first”.
• She had to go term time only at work because he can’t look after his own children for full days while she works, it triggers his PTSD. Meaning she had a lot less money. He also insisted on keeping their finances seperate, so whilst he stayed full time and would buy £900 TVs and an e scooter, she would have to forgo buying lunch at work because her salary dropped so much.
• During lockdown, things ramped up - he was beyond nasty and would text her from other rooms of the house saying “Tell those kids to STFU before lose my shit at you all” and “Can you put some clothes on, it makes me want to vomit seeing you in pyjamas during the day” and “You’d better be doing home schooling with them, if they’re then out to be thick kids it will be your fault”. He couldn’t home schooling apparently, it triggered his PTAD. She would text me these screenshots on a daily basis.
• One time we went to a local concert, and she decided she’d stay out for a drink after and stand up to him. He wasn’t happy and was demanding she come home but she put her phone in her bag. A few hours later, she checked her phone to find 67 missed calls and the ring doorbell showed paramedics at their door. He called 999 saying he thinks he has sepsis. He didn’t, and they soon left. But he spent months saying the stress she caused by staying out brought on sepsis like symptoms.
• He’d really have a go at her parenting. All the time. She’s an AMAZING mum, but if she didn’t have things 100% organised (like literally every mum on the planet) he’d go nuts. I was round once and he said “The girls want to go in the garden where are their hats?”. Because she didn’t instantly know and had to look in various cupboards and coat pockets, he really went at her saying “Smart mother you are - don’t even know where their clothes are”. I pointed out “Well neither do you” and the look her gave me terrified me to the point I left after that.
• Me and her went away with all our kids to a theme park hotel for the night and he was texting her having a go about her parenting - the kids weren’t even there! He’s obsessed with her “failing”. “I gave you a new routine and you failed at it. You left the house 15 minutes after we agreed. FAILED”.
• Her DDs eventually started treating her like shit. If they wanted her from another room they’d shout “Kate! Get here RIGHT NOW”. She said it’s because that’s how her DH speaks to her and they were copying

I spent a lot of personal time and energy worrying about my friend. I told her from early on to leave him, not to marry him, that’s she can do better and she’s a shell of her former self. Eventually, after another text simply saying “Guess what your latest fail has been? Go on take a guess.” (she forgot to turn the dishwasher on and he had nothing to eat his food on which apparently triggered his PTSD) she told me she wants to leave him. I supported her for the next 3 months. I did all sorts - looked around rentals on her behalf (he was NEVER gonna leave the house of his own accord and she didn’t want police involvement). Researched cheap items to but for a new kitchen. Researched women’s groups and charities that support single mums. Spent hours pouring over her rights and how to claim maintenance and the pitfalls she might encounter. Researching the cheapest forms of divorce. None of this she could do herself in case he checked her phone or caught her.

I did it to the detriment of spending time with my own kids and DH. My DH at this point was supportive but said i was too involved and it’s not my job, and pointed out my friend would post “we are such a happy family” type posts on social media and he assured me “she’s never gonna leave him you’re wasting your time”. We once fell out about it. But I persevered and was determined to get her out of there.

My uncle is a landlord and I asked him a favour to rent her a 2 bed property for a while at a cheap rate until she could find something more suitable. He agreed, letting down the person he promised it to. I was grateful and my friend was delighted she had a place to escape to.

A week before she was due to move in (she’d signed a tenancy agreement) she asked to meet me for lunch. She told me that I had been encouraging her to leave her husband for too long, pushing her into doing it and she didn’t like it and I was to stop. Because she loved him and wasn’t leaving. I asked her if her DH was making her say these things and she said “no”. I’m not sure if this is true. She said we can still be friends but I have to stop this “vendetta” against her DH.

A few days later, still heartbroken, I decided I’d had enough and her marriage had imposed too much on my own life. With DH’s support I texted her to say I couldn’t be her friend anymore. She had gaslighted me, and taken me for granted and she was on her own. I then blocked her on everything and haven’t seen her since. Luckily my uncle was v understanding and didn’t pursue her for her contractual obligations.

That was 3 years ago. I don’t talk about it because I feel so bruised emotionally from it and I tell people we drifted apart. We then moved away shortly after that (for different reasons) which made the cut-off easier.

Anyway caught up with my mum today and she said “You haven’t spoken about Kate in ages. You used to mention her all the time”. I told her the whole story.

I’ve come away feeling sick with guilt. My mum made me feel really awful - said I shouldn’t have given up on my friend and I should have bided my time before bringing it up again. That “That poor woman and those 2 girls are stuck with that vile man and you’re doing nothing about it”. My mum was in an abusive marriage (albeit a violent one as well) and said “so called friends like me” who bolted when her stories became too much are people she will never forgive or forget. That of you know bad things are happening it’s your obligation to stop them, and I gave up too soon.

FWIW. DH looks now and again on social media and Kate and her DH are still together.

I now feel so guilty and confused and second guessing my decision I was otherwise so sure about for 3 years. Please tell me MN honestly - WIBU to cut Kate off? Should I try and reach out to her? My mum gave me a new perspective and I honestly feel sick with what I did.

Not OPs responsibility though. It's one thing to be there for a friend, another to be the only friend in such an emotionally draining friendship.

The victim of abuse is often seen as the abuser. You refer to her gaslighting you - she really wasn’t - this properly refers to deliberate behaviour toward a victim. You were never a victim. You were just trying to help a friend escape abuse. She wasn’t ready. You could have pointed her toward resources that could help her - the freedom programme run by women’s aid can be accessed by women stuck in abusive relationships and help them find a way out. Then it wouldn’t have been about you.

You made it black and white - do what I say or do what DH says - instead of supporting her to make her own decisions with professional input.

Your input may have caused no harm but may have increased her sense of isolation. Maybe in future she will value your input. But you have chosen not to be a constant and continuing source of support to a victim who is trapped.

Your choice. Which means you are fine with potential consequences. It really doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks.

I agree with this.

Your friend was distressed and venting. It’s easy in a high state of distress after a bad episode to say, ‘I hate him, I hate him, I’m leaving’. But that is not a contract. She has not contracted you to arrange that for her, by saying that. She still needed time to process and think through what would mean practically, and to be psychologically ready. That can take years.

She would be living the practical implications of leaving, and that was obviously frightening for her, especially after years of being undermined and worn down and made to feel useless and incapable.

You acted with good intentions but without real understanding of the psychological state of your friend.

I am struck that in all your interactions with your friend, that you see her behaviours as deliberately being about you. About letting you down, betraying you, gaslighting you. But they weren’t. They were all about how your friend feels and the psychological state she is in, living with a psychological torturer.

yanbu. You have to think about you and your family. You helped Kate as much as you could and she told you to stop. So you did

Then you moved so that closeness was never going to be there again anyway

whilst I know it can take a number of attempts to leave you can’t gang around just in case

by all means contact her and see how she is getting on but don’t be drawn back in.

https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/the-survivors-handbook/im-worried-about-someone-else/

This has good advice. Supporting someone in this situation is hard.
However, describing what Kate said to you at that last meeting as gaslighting is not fair. She may have been lying to save her life, he could have planted a wire on her or made her swear to say those things or anything. You need to always remember, victims will never tell you the full extent of the abuse, here could have been violence and or rape involved. She would have been trying to protect her children - even whilst watching them become abusive to her like Daddy.

I would say that you think you knew your friend and understood her situation while you actually knew absolutely nothing. That look her husband gave you when you stood up to him might be a clue as to what she actually endured during that marriage. No matter how close you were she might not have told you the half of it. I feel that it was your right to withdraw from her but the manner in which you did it was brutal and unkind. You accused her or gaslighting you and said that you wanted to have nothing to do with her. That's awful. Even if that was the truth you could have worded it differently: on top of a cruel husband she also had to take that from you.

There's nothing to be done now. It was years ago. I would caution you to leave well alone because if you venture into the friendship again it will end the same way and you have shown that you can't deal with her situation (and you shouldn't be expected to). I hope that she has other friends and family and that one day she finds the courage to leave. I was lucky because I didn't have children with my abusive ex. I don't know how women who do have children manage to get away and to do that while remaining safe. It's really not as easy as many people seem to think.

You've put this much better than I did. I agree with you.

I don’t think any mature person ghosts. Especially not someone they suspect is in an abusive relationship.

You gave too much. That was your choice. You must take responsibility for that.

At the point she rejected you, the correct thing to do was to have talked to her about it. You should have told her how you feel, that you felt used and taken advantage of, and that you were going to take a step back from the friendship as it had all become too one-sided and all round too much for you.

There’s no excuse for adults to ghost people in circumstances like this. It’s damaging to the ghoster and the ghostee (which you know, as you’re still troubled by your actions, you still ask DH to check out her SM even though you know she isn’t truthful on it).

This is a separate issue from dropping a friend who won’t be helped. I’ve been in that situation. I agree with your mum 100%, but was unable to give enough. I told the friend in question exactly what my position was, and what my limits were. She needed more help than I could give. Life had moved on for us both but there is no rancor or ill-feeling on either side.

I would say that you think you knew your friend and understood her situation while you actually knew absolutely nothing….. No matter how close you were she might not have told you the half of it…. the manner in which you did it was brutal and unkind. You accused her of gaslighting you and said that you wanted to have nothing to do with her. That's awful….on top of a cruel husband she also had to take that from you

You gave too much. That was your choice. You must take responsibility for that

I agree with all of this.

afraid o disagree on your definition of gaslighting - you said Gaslighting is the deliberate insistence that something is true when it isn't, or the reverse, for the purpose of manipulating and/or controlling another person and this is what she did.

She was great before she met him. It was a gradual grinding down of her spirit and self esteem (isn’t it always). I disagree that I see abuse in black and white terms - cutting her off was everything about how she was making me feel through the medium of her abuse. That doesn’t mean I don’t understand the nuances of abuse.

I agree with the above posts too.

OP I don’t think anyone would criticise for withdrawing to an extent from the friendship, after all your efforts. I guess your mum experienced many complicated emotions when you told her what had happened.

However most of this thread shows how little people understand what it’s like trying to survive abuse.

OP you did nothing wrong. You did every single thing you could for her and then you got a kick in your teeth for your efforts.

YOU MATTER TOO. She is choosing to stay in an abusive relationship. I don't mean to diminish the horror of being in an abusive relationship. However, she was not alone, she had so much support from you and she chose to stay.

Her needs/her choices/her life does not trump yours. You matter, your DH matters, your family matter. It isn't OK that you were suffering anxiety because of the situation.

You don't need the responses on this thread, believe the person who lived it by your side and loves you the most - your DH.

“….how she was making me feel through the medium of her abuse.”
Sorry, are you saying you feel she was abusing you??

This may be out of context but knowing my mum like I do, being a DV abuse victim doesn’t mean you can’t also be a nasty person. It doesn’t absolve you of future unkindness, and it’s too much to go into on MN but she’s had instances of real nastiness in her life, not least being nasty about other female victims of DV -“Well she shouldn’t have wound him up if she didn’t want hit!”. When asked if that applies to her it’s always “My experience was different”

You made the right decision. If you had stayed friends it would just be the same, her telling you what he said/did, showing you his nasty controlling txts etc. Theres only so much help you can give someone and she obviously didnt want to leave him so what else could you do?
Your mum might not have had such a good friend that was willing to support her and bend over backwards in order for her to have a better life for her and her kids.

You haven't done anything wrong, this was impacting on your own marriage and that and your kids should always come first.

I can completely understand your actions. I think what would have done it for me was the fact she is making out you are the one in the wrong and are trying to manipulate her into walking out of her marriage. It shows that the only way she can continue the status quo is by making you the bad guy. No good would have come of it for you. You would have ended up being hated by her.

If she had just said ‘sorry, I can’t do this’ or ‘ I still love him’ then maybe it would’ve been possible, but she had to make out you were actively trying to wreck her life.

I feel similar about a friend. And I’m someone who did get out of a similarly abusive relationship.

My friends husband isn’t quite as controlling but it still bad. Talks to her like she’s shit, belittles her in front of kids all the time.

I’ve lost count of the times I’ve listened to her, given advice etc.

she now does a thing where she looks at my ‘poorer’ circumstances ( think decent size flat in London against her large home in Home Counties) and likes to make a thing about how awful my life is. It’s because she’s trying to justify staying with him, but it’s deeply insulting and completely misses the fact I’m very happy and she’s miserable.

I actually find it difficult to spend time with her and I keep my distance as a result. I don’t want someone making snide remarks about my life at every turn.

OK having just read your most recent post - you’re right, survivors don’t automatically gain “blameless angel” status.

If you experienced a difficult relationship with your mother at times, and tried to perhaps make sense of her complex personality with reference to her past experiences, that will have all been mixed up with your attempts to help Kate (as a PP suggested), also your feelings about the sequence of events when your friendship ended.

We are all complicated creatures.

I don't blame you.
At a point you need to protect yourself. And you reach the point where you can't play along anymore.

I really appreciate all the replies BTW even the YABUs. I think my mum hit a raw nerve in the way only a mother can! I also had a dream about Kate a few nights ago, TOTALLY out the blue, where I met up with her and she said he’d kidnapped the children, we were thing to find them in a park and then my kids suddenly disappeared too. It was so very weird then that my mum asked about her after 3 years. I don’t normally believe in the cosmic or the woo but these things make you wonder!

I think I’m going to have to find peace with my decision somehow. And pray to God that I don’t end up in that situation again.

To clarify, I’d told her endlessly, for years, about places that could help her but she never wanted to contact them in case he found out, or someone overheard. I had to be v careful what I messaged her in case he picked up her phone. Which is why I suggested I do all I can because she said she was unable to. I certainly didn’t jump straight into saying “I’ll do it for you”. It was a last resort after years of EA and her being unable to reach out.

i was just thinking the same thing reading your situation OP.

have just posted about my friend. She’s actually quite a ‘complex’ character. Have known her for years and she’s always been a green eyed monster. And if I was being honest, it’s her obsession with money that’s making her stay with a high earning but abusive partner. It’s not just about fear of the unknown.

Just because someone has experienced domestic abuse doesn’t turn them into the Dalai Lama!
and it sounds like your mum is massively projecting.

Theres a big difference between people deserting a friend because they don’t want ‘to get involved’ and cutting off someone who makes you the object of blame.

She may not have “contracted me” but she absolutely agreed to me helping her find housing, research financial support etc because she said she couldn’t. If she said no, I wouldn’t have done it.

I don’t think she let me down, that’s not the right term - but she did gaslight me and take me for granted. I may not be an abuse victim but my feelings in a friendship matter every bit as the next person's.

To clarify I don’t think he was physically violent - though I did ask now and again. She even said in her last meeting that he doesn’t hit her/drink/use drugs and so many women have it much worse.

@TheIvyRestaurant she wasn't ready to leave, that's her choice. A friend backed off me for a while when I was in an abusive relationship myself. They wanted me to lock my now ex out of the house. I wasn't ready to do things that way but eventually we did split and thankfully now we parent well together. I just was too scared to do that very tough approach and perhaps your friend is like this. Hopefully when the time is right for her, she will leave

You accused her or gaslighting you and said that you wanted to have nothing to do with her

No I didn’t.

My last message was saying the last lunch where she claimed I crossing a boundary was so hurtful, that I’ve spent more hours than I can count trying to help her to be told she never needed help at all, and that the friendship had made me completely emotionally depleted and I just can’t be her friend any more because of all of this. I also told her I’d be blocking her, told her I loved her so much and I wish her happiness but I can’t stand by anymore and be part of it. I also reminded her that no matter what anyone said she’s an amazing mum (and I meant every word).