To have cut off my friend who stayed in an abusive marriage

[TheIvyRestaurant]

I had a friend, let’s call her Kate - she met a man about 12 years ago and got pregnant very quickly, after 3 months. They decided to make a go of it, and from about mid-way through her pregnancy I noticed his red flag behaviour. Then things got worse when she had the baby and he moved in. They then had another DD about 2 years later and they got married a few years after that. I could give hundreds of examples of how he was emotionally abusive but here are a few:

• Kate was “allowed” to come out for drinks with me (I eventually was her only friend as he alienated her from so many people) but only during the day - she had to be back at 6pm so she could do bedtime as he couldn’t cope apparently. I’m not talking babies - this is when their DDs were 6 and 8. One night we were having so much fun we lost track of time and realised it was 6.15pm. She had 9 texts from him saying she had “failed at her task” and “failed as a parent” because “you know that I can’t do bedtimes so the girls are now going to be up really late thanks to you putting yourself first”.
• She had to go term time only at work because he can’t look after his own children for full days while she works, it triggers his PTSD. Meaning she had a lot less money. He also insisted on keeping their finances seperate, so whilst he stayed full time and would buy £900 TVs and an e scooter, she would have to forgo buying lunch at work because her salary dropped so much.
• During lockdown, things ramped up - he was beyond nasty and would text her from other rooms of the house saying “Tell those kids to STFU before lose my shit at you all” and “Can you put some clothes on, it makes me want to vomit seeing you in pyjamas during the day” and “You’d better be doing home schooling with them, if they’re then out to be thick kids it will be your fault”. He couldn’t home schooling apparently, it triggered his PTAD. She would text me these screenshots on a daily basis.
• One time we went to a local concert, and she decided she’d stay out for a drink after and stand up to him. He wasn’t happy and was demanding she come home but she put her phone in her bag. A few hours later, she checked her phone to find 67 missed calls and the ring doorbell showed paramedics at their door. He called 999 saying he thinks he has sepsis. He didn’t, and they soon left. But he spent months saying the stress she caused by staying out brought on sepsis like symptoms.
• He’d really have a go at her parenting. All the time. She’s an AMAZING mum, but if she didn’t have things 100% organised (like literally every mum on the planet) he’d go nuts. I was round once and he said “The girls want to go in the garden where are their hats?”. Because she didn’t instantly know and had to look in various cupboards and coat pockets, he really went at her saying “Smart mother you are - don’t even know where their clothes are”. I pointed out “Well neither do you” and the look her gave me terrified me to the point I left after that.
• Me and her went away with all our kids to a theme park hotel for the night and he was texting her having a go about her parenting - the kids weren’t even there! He’s obsessed with her “failing”. “I gave you a new routine and you failed at it. You left the house 15 minutes after we agreed. FAILED”.
• Her DDs eventually started treating her like shit. If they wanted her from another room they’d shout “Kate! Get here RIGHT NOW”. She said it’s because that’s how her DH speaks to her and they were copying

I spent a lot of personal time and energy worrying about my friend. I told her from early on to leave him, not to marry him, that’s she can do better and she’s a shell of her former self. Eventually, after another text simply saying “Guess what your latest fail has been? Go on take a guess.” (she forgot to turn the dishwasher on and he had nothing to eat his food on which apparently triggered his PTSD) she told me she wants to leave him. I supported her for the next 3 months. I did all sorts - looked around rentals on her behalf (he was NEVER gonna leave the house of his own accord and she didn’t want police involvement). Researched cheap items to but for a new kitchen. Researched women’s groups and charities that support single mums. Spent hours pouring over her rights and how to claim maintenance and the pitfalls she might encounter. Researching the cheapest forms of divorce. None of this she could do herself in case he checked her phone or caught her.

I did it to the detriment of spending time with my own kids and DH. My DH at this point was supportive but said i was too involved and it’s not my job, and pointed out my friend would post “we are such a happy family” type posts on social media and he assured me “she’s never gonna leave him you’re wasting your time”. We once fell out about it. But I persevered and was determined to get her out of there.

My uncle is a landlord and I asked him a favour to rent her a 2 bed property for a while at a cheap rate until she could find something more suitable. He agreed, letting down the person he promised it to. I was grateful and my friend was delighted she had a place to escape to.

A week before she was due to move in (she’d signed a tenancy agreement) she asked to meet me for lunch. She told me that I had been encouraging her to leave her husband for too long, pushing her into doing it and she didn’t like it and I was to stop. Because she loved him and wasn’t leaving. I asked her if her DH was making her say these things and she said “no”. I’m not sure if this is true. She said we can still be friends but I have to stop this “vendetta” against her DH.

A few days later, still heartbroken, I decided I’d had enough and her marriage had imposed too much on my own life. With DH’s support I texted her to say I couldn’t be her friend anymore. She had gaslighted me, and taken me for granted and she was on her own. I then blocked her on everything and haven’t seen her since. Luckily my uncle was v understanding and didn’t pursue her for her contractual obligations.

That was 3 years ago. I don’t talk about it because I feel so bruised emotionally from it and I tell people we drifted apart. We then moved away shortly after that (for different reasons) which made the cut-off easier.

Anyway caught up with my mum today and she said “You haven’t spoken about Kate in ages. You used to mention her all the time”. I told her the whole story.

I’ve come away feeling sick with guilt. My mum made me feel really awful - said I shouldn’t have given up on my friend and I should have bided my time before bringing it up again. That “That poor woman and those 2 girls are stuck with that vile man and you’re doing nothing about it”. My mum was in an abusive marriage (albeit a violent one as well) and said “so called friends like me” who bolted when her stories became too much are people she will never forgive or forget. That of you know bad things are happening it’s your obligation to stop them, and I gave up too soon.

FWIW. DH looks now and again on social media and Kate and her DH are still together.

I now feel so guilty and confused and second guessing my decision I was otherwise so sure about for 3 years. Please tell me MN honestly - WIBU to cut Kate off? Should I try and reach out to her? My mum gave me a new perspective and I honestly feel sick with what I did.

Well your friend may not have gaslit you but my friend did gaslight me. Do you think abused women are incapable of such poor behaviour? What about this kind of behaviour towards their children?

You tried to rescue her and at the same time hoping to heal your own past trauma's. That's a lot of pressure that you put on yourself and on her. I suppose it's easier to paint her as the baddy. I don't believe you was the right person to help her. You have your own demons to work out and make peace with. Hopefully one day she will see sense and leave.

You’re a good friend. Please don’t feel guilty. I get it I do, but Kate’s not rational. Hopefully, maybe one day she might be and let’s be honest she would know how to contact you. Let her go and live your life. Unfortunately because of your mums passed and yours it hit deeper but appreciate what you have. I don’t feel your mums comments are even valid you’re an adult and know the difference between right and wrong. Friendships are hard but I was once told. You meet people and have people in your life for only 3 reasons… 1, You need them 2, They need you 3, You need each other. When you don’t have any of those reasons they’re no longer in your life and that’s ok. That has always stick with me. X

I don’t think you are the right person to have helped her out of this abusive situation and I think you tried to be but found you had neither the experience nor the understanding to be able to. I think you did a truly admirable job of trying to help her but possibly don’t have the in depth knowledge of DA to be skilled enough to get her to safety. Even experienced DA support workers don’t have a 100% success rate at getting women out.
It’s also really important to remember the dynamics of a DA relationship. Very often you’ll have a (woman, invariably) who is used to not thinking for herself and who is dependent upon her abuser. It is therefore not entirely appropriate for another person to- be that a friend or whatever - to ‘rescue’ her. Women experiencing DA need skilled support to be empowered to make a positive decision to leave and then a tonne of support in dealing with the wreckage after they have left. What they don’t need is someone to whisk them out of the abuse situation. This is ineffective and also leaves them vulnerable to further DA type situations as they have not had to work through the reasons why they entered into such a relationship in the first place. I’m not talking blame here, I’m talking about the psychology of being someone who abusive types prey on. That woman may have low self esteem, poor sense of identity and a family history that makes her vulnerable. none of which makes her responsible. It’s just the dynamics of abuse. By becoming the fixer in a terrible situation you have not empowered this woman or helped her to work on areas which will later enable her to avoid being treated abusively in the future.

So, your mum is wrong to heap responsibility on you. Your best move would be to stay a friend but let agencies such as women’s aid do the professional support. Remain her lifeline but don’t delve into complex territory - particularly at the expense of your own family and their needs.

Meanwhile if you read OPs posts you'd see she helped with things her friend asked her to help with.

Some people will always excuse any of their actions OP, you won't change their minds so I wouldn't bother trying.

It’s an interesting discussion though how far exactly you are supposed to go in rescuing another adult with capacity who doesn’t want to be rescued? Most of us know instinctively when we reach our “line”. Op has reached hers and fair enough.

It's sad to see other women trying to minimise or worse deny your lived experiences. You have acknowledged the different opinions without rudeness in response. As you have said the relationship with your 'friend' was affecting your own life and family. What do some expect? That you put her first?
You made the right choices for you and your family. Wishing you the best going forward 👏

"To clarify I don’t think he was physically violent - though I did ask now and again. She even said in her last meeting that he doesn’t hit her/drink/use drugs and so many women have it much worse."

As a survivor of Emotional DV at the hands of a man who was never 'violent' the dismissive tone of the post this comes from tells me all i need to know about how the OP views DV, and her complete lack of understanding of what its like being in the middle of that.

Took me 17 years and 3 attempts to leave my ExH... on one occasion i also hade a house lined up and then backed out because the fear took over.

I answered someone’s question about whether he was violent. What was wrong with my answer? It wasn’t dismissive at all it was just repeating what she said.

Er, she literally came her asking opinions on this and we are giving ours, based on lived experience. Thats how AIBU works

Hi OP, I can see you're spending a lot of time trying to explain your POV to people who don't want to see it. Whether what you did was "right" or "wrong" of course you're entitled to your feelings and your POV.

Perhaps your friend said what she said because it was easier for her than admitting she "wasted" your time, had to cancel a tenancy agreement, apologise to the people involved etc. Maybe she had a couple of good days with him before meeting you so created this narrative in her head that you were making her leave him. I guess you don't have complete closure because you don't know what would have happened if you stayed friends - it would inevitably get to the point she would start talking about the abuse again and wanting to leave him again - and you would have had to discuss her previous accusations, and maybe you would have got some answers. Or not.

You're not her mum or daughter and had every right to withdraw from the friendship and you did what you thought was the best decision at the time. Three years on you might be having doubts but you did what you thought was right. Not sure much can be done about it now, especially as you seem to have a lot of strong feelings about it so potentially contacting your friend again might cause the same issues, especially if she sticks to her side of the story. You could unblock her if you want as a kind of closure and leave it at that?

You're not unreasonable for putting yourself and your family first. You are unreasonable for cutting all ties. You could at least have remained friends. Women in abusive relationships need friends and family so they know they have a way of escape if needed. Abusive men characteristically systematically alienate their wives from their support network so they end up having to rely on only them and find it harder to leave. You can always reach out to her and ask if she wants to meet up for a coffee. Remembering she will only leave if and when she feels ready

Why?
Is the OP legally obligated to have an abuser in her life?

I wouldn't want a dangerous individual capable of such things anywhere near my existence.

Nah you are not unreasonable. You went advice and beyond.

I've ended up cutting out friends with abusive partners too. They tend to become quite messy, chaotic and emotionally demanding. I've also found they can be damned treacherous, as they tell their abusive partners everything, and then you become the enemy they unite against.

My approach now is to say my piece and then cut contact. Some of my friends will leave the door open if circumstances change. I don't, as so far the circumstances never seem to change, but then I've been unlucky.

It's really a tragedy and I continue to support domestic abuse charities as and when I can. Also try to educate young people in my life on what abusive relationships look like. I've been in a couple myself (emotional and financial), and have left. Once I could see the pattern in myself, I stopped dating and am just coming out of a year of self work.

Honestly one has to protect ones own energy, and then when it comes to others, only give it to those who are taking action.

It's especially horrible when they gang up on you with their abusive partner. Then you become part of the 'drama triangle' and what your mum does not realise, is that's you pulled into an abusive dynamic.

I feel it for the kids and I hope your friend does leave and gets help to if she does. I don't hold out much hope though.

I think, having read all of OP's posts, that imo it was gaslighting. Purely because if the OP had not broken off the friendship, what would have happened next? She will have wanted to continue venting to OP, but would she have explained her behaviour? Or would she have continued to ask for help while denying that she asked for help?

It's a complicated situation, but ultimately it asks more of OP than she can emotionally or mentally provide any more and she tried her best to be a good friend to her until she was hurt, because a simple explanation could have sufficed ("Thank you, but I'm not ready to leave yet and I don't want to discuss it further") instead of denying OP's reality and making her feel stupid and controlling for doing what was asked of her repeatedly.

Her friend didn't abuse her she was under pressure to say something. The op has gone through trauma as well that's why she didn't handle the situation very well. I doubt her friend's husband would have allowed the friendship to continue. I think the op knows that so in order to make herself feel better she has to turn her friend who is the victim into a villain. The op feels that she should have left because of her children. Easier said than done she is afraid to break up her family. Op did the right thing in the end for her but like everyone else we all need someone to blame when getting out of a codependent relationship/friendship.

There would be no friendship her husband is in control not ops friend.

Best way to handle people who you meet and are going through domestic abuse. These people have to reach tock bottom before they will begin helping themselves. You can't get caught up in their madness.

I forgot to add it's not your fault op or your friends fault. You got caught up in her madness. Your mum was wrong to have said what she said to you. It's not up to you to rescue her she has to want to. You're not to blame for your friends choices. You tried your best.

Wise words from ThisBrick. It’s like when an addict dies often their family aren’t in their lives. They tried but the person is too far gone down that road and it has to come from them. There’s literally nothing more poor op can do here. If she stayed friends she’ll get dragged down too. Don’t think she had an option but to walk away really. And frankly the way the “friend” treated her was constructive dismissal. Very few could stay around after being treated like that.

You were her friend. Be confident in that, you were a good friend to her.

She wasn’t a good friend to you. Whether that is down to her own capacity to be a good friend or not, she wasn’t. That fact remains.

What can you do for victims of domestic violence/emotional abuse that the OP hadn't already done?

Talk to her husband? That could make things worse for her.

Report it to the Police? That could make things worse for her. Often when police respond to a report of DV the victim denies it, the perpetrator always denies it.

The victim is often powerless otherwise they'd have done somttething about it. Leaving is often more scary than staying -fear of the unknown vs putting up with it and hoping for the best.

What you really need is a magic wand and a fairy godmother, but neither exist. You want the perpetrator to get a personality transplant and to turn into mr (mrs) wonderful, but how likely is that!

My advice - start planning to leave because nothing will change until you seek proper help, tell your GP - they will signpost you to people who can support you.

You went above and beyond for your friend, prioritising her needs above your own.
You’ve done absolutely the right thing
It’s self preservation.
Don’t let your Mum make you feel guilty
I think she’s reflecting on her own past

You tried your very best, you even found her a house. It's very sad but she needs to find the courage to leave and for whatever reason she can't. Something inside her is broken. You can't fix that. But you tried a lot harder then most. Don't feel bad. 💐