To have cut off my friend who stayed in an abusive marriage

[TheIvyRestaurant]

I had a friend, let’s call her Kate - she met a man about 12 years ago and got pregnant very quickly, after 3 months. They decided to make a go of it, and from about mid-way through her pregnancy I noticed his red flag behaviour. Then things got worse when she had the baby and he moved in. They then had another DD about 2 years later and they got married a few years after that. I could give hundreds of examples of how he was emotionally abusive but here are a few:

• Kate was “allowed” to come out for drinks with me (I eventually was her only friend as he alienated her from so many people) but only during the day - she had to be back at 6pm so she could do bedtime as he couldn’t cope apparently. I’m not talking babies - this is when their DDs were 6 and 8. One night we were having so much fun we lost track of time and realised it was 6.15pm. She had 9 texts from him saying she had “failed at her task” and “failed as a parent” because “you know that I can’t do bedtimes so the girls are now going to be up really late thanks to you putting yourself first”.
• She had to go term time only at work because he can’t look after his own children for full days while she works, it triggers his PTSD. Meaning she had a lot less money. He also insisted on keeping their finances seperate, so whilst he stayed full time and would buy £900 TVs and an e scooter, she would have to forgo buying lunch at work because her salary dropped so much.
• During lockdown, things ramped up - he was beyond nasty and would text her from other rooms of the house saying “Tell those kids to STFU before lose my shit at you all” and “Can you put some clothes on, it makes me want to vomit seeing you in pyjamas during the day” and “You’d better be doing home schooling with them, if they’re then out to be thick kids it will be your fault”. He couldn’t home schooling apparently, it triggered his PTAD. She would text me these screenshots on a daily basis.
• One time we went to a local concert, and she decided she’d stay out for a drink after and stand up to him. He wasn’t happy and was demanding she come home but she put her phone in her bag. A few hours later, she checked her phone to find 67 missed calls and the ring doorbell showed paramedics at their door. He called 999 saying he thinks he has sepsis. He didn’t, and they soon left. But he spent months saying the stress she caused by staying out brought on sepsis like symptoms.
• He’d really have a go at her parenting. All the time. She’s an AMAZING mum, but if she didn’t have things 100% organised (like literally every mum on the planet) he’d go nuts. I was round once and he said “The girls want to go in the garden where are their hats?”. Because she didn’t instantly know and had to look in various cupboards and coat pockets, he really went at her saying “Smart mother you are - don’t even know where their clothes are”. I pointed out “Well neither do you” and the look her gave me terrified me to the point I left after that.
• Me and her went away with all our kids to a theme park hotel for the night and he was texting her having a go about her parenting - the kids weren’t even there! He’s obsessed with her “failing”. “I gave you a new routine and you failed at it. You left the house 15 minutes after we agreed. FAILED”.
• Her DDs eventually started treating her like shit. If they wanted her from another room they’d shout “Kate! Get here RIGHT NOW”. She said it’s because that’s how her DH speaks to her and they were copying

I spent a lot of personal time and energy worrying about my friend. I told her from early on to leave him, not to marry him, that’s she can do better and she’s a shell of her former self. Eventually, after another text simply saying “Guess what your latest fail has been? Go on take a guess.” (she forgot to turn the dishwasher on and he had nothing to eat his food on which apparently triggered his PTSD) she told me she wants to leave him. I supported her for the next 3 months. I did all sorts - looked around rentals on her behalf (he was NEVER gonna leave the house of his own accord and she didn’t want police involvement). Researched cheap items to but for a new kitchen. Researched women’s groups and charities that support single mums. Spent hours pouring over her rights and how to claim maintenance and the pitfalls she might encounter. Researching the cheapest forms of divorce. None of this she could do herself in case he checked her phone or caught her.

I did it to the detriment of spending time with my own kids and DH. My DH at this point was supportive but said i was too involved and it’s not my job, and pointed out my friend would post “we are such a happy family” type posts on social media and he assured me “she’s never gonna leave him you’re wasting your time”. We once fell out about it. But I persevered and was determined to get her out of there.

My uncle is a landlord and I asked him a favour to rent her a 2 bed property for a while at a cheap rate until she could find something more suitable. He agreed, letting down the person he promised it to. I was grateful and my friend was delighted she had a place to escape to.

A week before she was due to move in (she’d signed a tenancy agreement) she asked to meet me for lunch. She told me that I had been encouraging her to leave her husband for too long, pushing her into doing it and she didn’t like it and I was to stop. Because she loved him and wasn’t leaving. I asked her if her DH was making her say these things and she said “no”. I’m not sure if this is true. She said we can still be friends but I have to stop this “vendetta” against her DH.

A few days later, still heartbroken, I decided I’d had enough and her marriage had imposed too much on my own life. With DH’s support I texted her to say I couldn’t be her friend anymore. She had gaslighted me, and taken me for granted and she was on her own. I then blocked her on everything and haven’t seen her since. Luckily my uncle was v understanding and didn’t pursue her for her contractual obligations.

That was 3 years ago. I don’t talk about it because I feel so bruised emotionally from it and I tell people we drifted apart. We then moved away shortly after that (for different reasons) which made the cut-off easier.

Anyway caught up with my mum today and she said “You haven’t spoken about Kate in ages. You used to mention her all the time”. I told her the whole story.

I’ve come away feeling sick with guilt. My mum made me feel really awful - said I shouldn’t have given up on my friend and I should have bided my time before bringing it up again. That “That poor woman and those 2 girls are stuck with that vile man and you’re doing nothing about it”. My mum was in an abusive marriage (albeit a violent one as well) and said “so called friends like me” who bolted when her stories became too much are people she will never forgive or forget. That of you know bad things are happening it’s your obligation to stop them, and I gave up too soon.

FWIW. DH looks now and again on social media and Kate and her DH are still together.

I now feel so guilty and confused and second guessing my decision I was otherwise so sure about for 3 years. Please tell me MN honestly - WIBU to cut Kate off? Should I try and reach out to her? My mum gave me a new perspective and I honestly feel sick with what I did.

Yes… and I can count on one hand how many stuck by me. Most put me in the too hard basket, but I was so disempowered by him I was in a frozen catatonic state of survival.

Not saying you are wrong OP, but I do know where your mum is coming from. But you really really tried

Also agree with PP that she didn’t gaslight you. He’d have threatened her or she’d be in fear of him and too scared to leave. I also think your post about blocking her in favour of fun light friendships is pretty horrible!

If everyone took the above poster’s advice to “stay out of someone else’s marriage”, there’d be a lot more dead/injured/suicidal/ traumatised women and children around.

I don't think it's horrible at all. OP explained that she felt depleted by 8 years of hearing all the vile details of Kate's abuse and by trying to help her - and she DID absolutely go above and beyond, arranging a low-cost flat for her by calling in a favour from her uncle and everything. Then Kate gave OP a massive smack across the mouth at that lunch. OP says that she really enjoyed having healthier friendships after that. She's not Kate's ESA and she's entitled to enjoy her life. We always tell women to have good boundaries and to put your oxygen mask on first, but somehow, OP is meant to keep on trying with Kate until what? Until OP is destroyed too?

I think many posters don't know what it is to be the bystander to DV, to try to help, and then to get abused yourself.

Again, you nor anyone else on this thread was there - I was gaslit. Or do you think abused women are incapable of bad behaviour such as gaslighting or manipulation? It’s a bit infantilising TBH to suggest they can’t be flawed.

I didn’t “block her in favour of other friendships” at all. I said the reason o continued to feel like it was the right decision (rather than wallowing in regret) was because sure the friendships I formed after that were fun and drama-free and two way, and it was a refreshing change. I wasn’t sitting thinking “I’ll dump her and call my fun friends”

Until you’ve been in an abusive situation it’s very hard to understand. Hence mine and your mother’s opinion on this

Until you’ve been in an abusive situation it’s very hard to understand. Hence mine and your mother’s opinion on this

Yes true, but I think Kate had been caught out and had been forced to say those things. He could even have made her record the conversation.

Until you've been OPe situation on the other end of it it's hard to understand also.

Have been in both. She’s here asking the question though so I’m answering it

Kate is in an abusive relationship but it is possible that Kate can also be abusive to a friend. Both are possible.

Kate isn't a child and treating her as such an innocent whxacan do.no wrong because she's in an abusive relationship is unhelpful.

Sure you have :)

I do think how people describe being in an abusive relationship is like an addiction, though I appreciate it’s different. I knew someone who recently passed from addiction and I was angry their family didn’t help them more but I guess like op, everyone has their limits and I have a better understanding of that now.

It’s really hard but if you are or have been in an abusive relationship it does impact the people around you - it isn’t just you and your abuser - it’s your kids, family and friends. So many women rationalise that he’s only bad to them so they can put up with it, but it isn’t true, it affects everyone who cares about you too. And it’s hard (like addiction) to see someone you love go back to this damaging behaviour, to tell you they want change and then do the opposite, to get angry with you for you trying to help. So it’s human nature to stop helping for your own sake and to also maybe salvage what’s left of your relationship if there’s anything there.

What I will say is I’ve never had someone take kindly to comments on their relationship until that relationship has irrevocably broke down, regardless of how good/ bad that relationship is generally.

Tell your Mother to befriend her and see what help she can offer her!
It's easy to judge without knowing the awful impact it was having upon you. You did your best. You have nothing to recriminate yourself about. You had to exit for your own wellbeing.

Indeed. In fact, the OP's mother did not protect her own daughter from her having a variety controlling partners so I find it it a bit ironic she's now having a go at you, OP.

Projection much? Maybe she should take a look in the mirror a bit more eh....

OP I think you did the right thing and shouldn't feel guilty at all.
I say this from both sides as I've been on both sides. I've been your friend, trapped into an abusive relationship and under complete control. It was mental, emotional, financial and quickly became physically abusive. I was isolated from friends and family, I did things I'd never do now to keep him happy and try to prevent the kick offs. People knew but did nothing but there wasn't really anything they could do as it had to 100% come from me.
For me I had 2 deaths in my family and that gave the kick I needed to get out. This wasn't easy at all as it escalated everything. The police became involved after an assault on the street. I had counselling and eventually went to court where he didn't turn up.
He's still about and still tells everyone he never did anything to me. I cannot explain the person he moulded me into or the fact that it's been nearly 20 years and it still affects me.
On the other side I very quickly spotted my cousins red flags when she met her husband as his behaviour was so similar. I tried to warn her but she was swept up in him.
She came on holiday to mine after Thier first date and we went on a day out and to the cinema. She came out of the cinema to so many missed calls and abusive messages. She then spent most of the day trying to sort things out with him and convince him she hadn't been cheating.
Long story short...she married him. They had 2 DDs. I never liked him and would sometimes go and stay and his behaviour towards her turned me back into the person my ex had made me. It was horrible just being near him.
When the 2 DDs where maybe 5 and 2 they came on holiday with my cousin and some other family members. The very first moment the 5 year old DD was on her own with my family she disclosed she was worried about mummy and her sister as daddy was horrible to them. This led to an admission by my cousin about the horrific circumstances they were all enduring. The whole family got involved and helped her leave him.
It was a few weeks and she went back. We were all devastated.
He did have counselling and drug testing and Social services got involved and helped. But he was always just horrible. Eventually he left her for someone else although the abuse still continues, turning up at the house, fighting over the kids, assaulting her a few times in public when they first broke up. He's done very similar to his new partner and she is still with him.
So my point is ...don't feel bad. Your friend is a grown up and can make her own decisions..up to a point where he has total control over her.
She won't ever leave most likely. And if she does it will be because something triggers her enough to want to and to have the strength to see it through.
All she wants to do is survive through every day and not trigger him. It's so sad but it's not your problem.
Sorry this was long but hope it helps

You tried so hard to help her but ultimately, she didn’t want to be helped. That is enormously emotionally draining for you, the worry, the effort made to support.

I would feel sad for her, but not at all guilty.

Puts me in mind of a situation my teacher sister was in. A teen in her class lost his dad. Yes it’s sad. But for years he then terrorised other pupils and teachers but the SMT wouldn’t let them respond because he was bereaved. How long and how far does the get out of jail card go? Because the friend is in a bad situation she’s entitled to treat the op appallingly?

It's fine to offer help in these circumstances but obviously her DH, like most in this situation, wanted to alienate her from family and friends so that he could do as he pleases. It worked. She was too scared to leave him, having been told she was useless at everything and couldn't cope without him, so no confidence, hence why she didn't leave, plus the fear of what he would do. Personally I'd have said to start with, if you leave him I'm here to help in whatever way i can, so don't hesitate to ask. In the meantime just find out what help she could have got incase she did pluck up the courage to leave. You cut her off totally that was your choice but maybe she thought you were taking over from DH telling her what to do. As for making contact with her you may find she no longer has a phone for you to do that. If you do try, maybe just a short message saying, was thinking about you and wondered how you all are, hope your keeping ok. If her DH reads that, you put how you ALL are, if she doesn't reply you won't know if no phone, he's deleted message or she's done with you.

So many posters in here are having a go at you OP and I’m seeing you go all in at each and every one of them. Stand back, let go and focus on the good stuff around you. And the good things people are also
saying. Your mum sounds a bit narcissistic tbh, and this was and still is ur trigger - as well your friend was locked into a narcissist triangle and you have found ur emotions mixed up in all of it. Doubting urself, getting in a right old fight and Im emotionally exhausted from watching you take on everyone. Stop. Just stop. Stand back and let go. Hope ur doing ok.

Enjoy your own family and your Dh sounds lovely so you’ve clearly broken that cycle. You sound like an amazing friend I’d only do what you did for my own sisters.

Your mum can reach out to your mate herself if she’s that bothered. Bet she won’t though.

Your friend absolutely did gaslight you OP.

Those saying she didn’t are suggesting that her behaviour was down to the abusive relationship she is in. Yes her behaviour is down to that, but that doesn’t mean she didn’t gaslight you. The gaslighting is the result of the abuse. It’s STILL gaslighting.

The fact you felt you had to check all of your previous conversations because she made you feel like you were going crazy, clearly demonstrates that.

And I say this as someone who who has been in an abusive relationship. It was both EA and DV that I endured (I didn’t tell people what I was going through at the time because I knew they would try and get me to leave).

I can completely understand why you felt the need to walk away from the friendship. Could you have just taken a step back instead and left the door open for you if/when she needed you? Yes. Of course. But at that time you were feeling incredibly hurt at having your friendship and support dismissed and you weren’t seeing that as a viable option.

You did what you thought was right for you at the time. When someone else’s situation takes a heavy toll on you and your family, you have every right to reassess whether you should continue to give support. Everyone has their limit.

I may not have been in the situation directly but I grew up watching EA play out in my own home. I fundamentally disagree that abuse victims can’t be liars, gaslighters or manipulators. Try being a child who is lied to, manipulated and gaslit and tell me it’s not really happening because “you don’t understand”

Ive been through traumas in my own life and I would NEVER treat someone like shit and say “Oh I’m not REALLY treating you like shit - it’s just that I’ve been through XYZ and the problem is you just don’t understand and have no right to feel angry about it”

You spent year after year supporting a friend through DA at their endless requests for them to one day throw it back in your face and tell you they never asked toy for support? How did you respond to them?

Yes. Very similar situation, the only huge difference was I was also in a highly abusive relationship and pregnant then with a baby at the same time. I did the same as you. Cut her off. Hence I didn’t say you were wrong for doing that. But I know from experience that her throwing it back in my face wasn’t her gaslighting me. She wasn’t ready to make the break as was under his control - it really was frustrating and awful for me. I just totally didn’t have the bandwidth to stick by her while dealing with my own situation.