To think that parents who don’t control their kids in public deserve public shaming?

[MyEdgyAmberZebra]

If your child is throwing a screaming tantrum in a restaurant, I shouldn’t have to “be understanding” - I should be able to tell you to sort it out.

This is crazy. What an absolutely ridiculous scenario you're depicting here.

Toddlers generally don't enjoy cafes. They don't drink coffee and mine found the experience oppressively dull. (some know-it-all will be along shortly to tell me that I'm wrong and little Tarquin loves a visit to the local artisan cafe to enjoy a good chat and a babyccino. . . ).

What the parenting books don't tell you is that you need to be ready to pivot at any moment when you have kids. Child throws a massive tantrum in a restaurant = leave, child hurts himself in a play area that you've just paid nearly a tenner for and is traumatised at the prospect of going back in (yes, this happened to me) = change tact and look for a different activity, child starts throwing up just as you've put dinner on the table = looks like it'll be takeaway tonight.

This is a situation that could have been a) avoided, or b) resolved a hell of a lot sooner. Do you think that because you're outside that no one can hear?

Anyway, broadly agree with the sentiment of this, op. 'Shaming' feels like the wrong term, but I get what you mean and I think it links in with a thread I saw on here last week about general declining standards of behaviour in public from adults.

Why?

I’ve seen parents removing an overwrought child from a store and from a restaurant. That’s quite normal, I should have thought?

To all the self righteous perfect parents (and the lone dog owner) who have piled on here to whinge about other people’s kids, do you really think shaming the parents for your perception of bad parenting is the solution?

Yes there are annoying kids and shit parents everywhere. But there are also really badly behaved adults in so-called “adult spaces” (what are these, incidentally? Casinos? Bars? Over priced coffee shops?). What’s the answer?

You don’t actually have a solution here, you just like feeling superior and better than other people. Just as insufferable in my opinion as the parent scrolling on their phone as their kids rain down hell.

But you take them out of the restaurant surely!?

You don’t subject everyone else in the restaurant to your child screaming while you rummage through your temper tantrum management strategies.

One of you, or you if you are the only parent present, leaves your food on the table and asks a staff member not to clear it away as you bear your rigid or flailing child out of the restaurant where you then try to calm them. That’s what used to happen and mostly still does happen I would hope. It’s shit but it comes with the territory. Hopefully you will get to finish your meal.

It’s like weddings, please don’t just stand there jiggling and hushing your screaming baby; the parent least close to the couple marrying takes the baby out of the room as quickly as possible without breaking into a run. People are so selfish and don’t want to miss something themselves even at the cost of everyone else’s experience. If you miss your mate’s vows then again, it’s shit, but it’s your child and sometimes that’s the way it goes.

I don't entirely disagree but I added in a later post- ideally I'd remove the child but not everyone has the physical ability.
I'm heavily pregnant and can't lift my three year old. She's generally pretty good out and about but actually she had a meltdown in a cafe the other week- turned out later she was brewing a cold and probably not feeling herself- but I couldn't honestly do anything. I didn't ignore her but I was fairly useless. Any attempts to touch her or intervene resulted in screaming.
It was a family friendly cafe but still very disruptive. Other than never take my daughter anywhere it just can't be helped unfortunately.

For most people it’s a fleeting stage too. Most babies and toddlers grow out of tantrums and screaming.

I’ve had 26 years of abandoned coffees and meals as DD2 has physical and cognitive disabilities. It will be that way until I die. It’s not her fault and it’s not my fault but I’m not going to sit in a restaurant or church with her vocalising loudly in distress and throwing herself back in her wheelchair. Even if remaining there was an “learning moment” for her, and how could it be when someone is in such distress, it’s not fair on all the other people for whom it is also very stressful.

Parents of SN kids widely report feeling blamed and judged by others for their child’s behaviour though.

You may be good at spotting and empathising with the parent who is doing their best in a difficult situation, but loads of people seemingly lack this skill 🤔

Nothing stopping you from trying to administer said shaming OP, but you may find you don't like the consequences. Up to you whether you take the risk!

I agree.

I get it that some children may be ND but surely as a parent you'd remove a tantrum-ing child from the restaurant, even so?

It would be much easier to calm them down/discipline them - whatever is appropriate - away from the scene and also an act of consideration to other diners.

Going to a restaurant is a privilege and I think children need to understand they'll have to behave appropriately there, or leave. It's a life lesson.

It's pretty simple to bundle up a child and take them outside to let them calm down.

In a restaurant? Lovely. Take the kid out and then ignore the tantrum to your hearts content- outside or in the car. Away from everyone else.

I don’t want to shame anyone. At the same time I do see a bunch of utterly useless parents these days who are clueless at how to manage children. Unboundaried children become anxious and aggressive.

Again, see my post above- it's in no way simple to bundle up 17kg of writhing toddler when you're heavily pregnant with PGP!

If I’m paying money in a restaurant I don’t want to listen to a child in a tantrum. Take them out. Stop coming up with feeble excuses as to why you can’t. If the place was on fire you’d soon move. Why do some parents think their kids are so special that we all have to put up with their awful behaviour? Shift.

I get what you are saying but I think it’s conflating two very different things. It isn’t okay to let your kid run riot no matter how end of tether you feel that day but it also isn’t okay to be rude and unkind to someone else.

You are still in a public place and are ultimately responsible for the behaviour of your children - that shouldn’t change just because you are stressed out. Because having everyone around you have to deal with that isn’t okay.

However, people don’t have the right to be rude and inconsiderate to people. Unfortunately one follows the other though.

Thier list of excuses is never-ending.

Then you shouldn’t be going to discretionary public places like cafes and restaurants. If you can’t manage your kid, don’t make it my problem.

I see so many kids having a massive tantrum in public,but their parents just sit there oblivious. Usually staring at their phones.

This is absolute, utter bullshit.

We weren't taken out until we learned to eat properly, sit at table, converse quietly etc. at home, at nursery, at the homes of relatives. You don't need to inflict unruly kids on the general public in order to train them in proper behaviour.

My child has grown up to be a pleasant young adult but as a young child was prone to meltdowns on the bus home from a big shop. (Single mum, a 3yr old, half a dozen bags in tow that I’d lugged from the supermarket half a mile to the bus station and ready to cry myself) An old lady sat near to me on the bus actually gave a loud tut. My response, “any suggestions?” Clearly OP has either no children or little darlings

So you have no qualms about ruining other people's outings?

The default public behaviour in our society is quiet consideration for others.

There needs to be a very good reason for disrupting an environment such as a cafe or restaurant or cinema. Kids who are too young to be trusted to maintain consideration and decorum need to stick to parks, soft play and other places made for boisterious behaviour. The parents will survive if they can't dine out for a few years. It was their choice to have kids.

Get someone to watch the child at home while you shop?

Or, endure you only go to places where children are not allowed to.

Shift.

I wish many adults would stay at home rather then inflict themselves on me in public spaces, but we live in a world with other people unfortunately.

yes people chose to have children, they didn’t choose to be isolated from society for 10 years. Other countries, especially in and around Mediterranean are much more accepting of kids in general.

children exist, bad parents exist, if you don’t want to encounter either perhaps you ought to stay home. Or buy some expensive headphones.

I didn’t say anything about a restaurant.

but since you’re obsessed with restaurants - take yourself to knew where children are not allowed.