To consider private school

[HowManyDucks]

I hesitated about putting this question to AIBU as I know it is a decisive issue on Mumsnet, but it is ultimately an AIBU so I've put my hard hat on.

I'm being very honest and am writing things that I would never say out loud. It's not humble brag. I am just trying to work out the best thing to do for DD (like every mum does).

Private school was not on my radar at all but I am a firm believer in parenting the child you have. I'm trying to work out whether sending to DD to a private school would actually be in her best interest or whether it is just trying to compensate for my own incredibly disappointing school experience.

Some context.
My brother was a maths whizz (getting As in a level maths and further maths age 14 without ever picking up a revision book). He never went to uni and 10 years after leaving school, works in Tesco. (Nothing wrong with that of course but so much wasted potential). I, on the other hand, was a bright (not exceptional like my brother) all rounder, think straight As at GCSE and A level. I was offered a music scholarship to a fancy private school but wasn't allowed to go. I resented this for a long time. I went to a bog standard secondary and hated every second of it. I would hate for DD to have to go through what I went though. Most of my classmates went into vocational jobs and apprenticeships after school instead of uni. I joined the military because I didn't this uni was for people from my background. So that's where I am coming from. I grew up in a single parent household, with an alcoholic mother where education was not prioritised. For her, private school was for posh people with more money than sense.

Fast forward to having DD. I am a single mum. DD is 13 months old. I'm getting ready to go back to work and so have been on the hunt for a nursery.

I understand that babies develop at different rates and that hitting milestones 's early doesn't correspond with intelligence. However, it is becoming increasingly difficult to hide how advanced my DD is and people are commenting a lot. She took her first steps at 7.5 months, walking confidently at 9. At 12 months had a vocabulary of 90+ words (only counting the words she used consistently and in context), could identify approx 10 shapes (like parallelogram and trapezium), she knows approx 20 letters of the alphabet (phonetically) and is pointing out letters when we are out and about. She can recognise some familiar words and is showing an interest in reading. She is excellent at following instructions, I talk to her like I would a five or six year old.
She is 13 months 🤦

After some recent threads about behaviour in primary schools i am increasingly worried about whether our local state schools would be best for her (not their fault but if course). Supporting SEND, managing behaviour, and helping all children achieve national average is a greater priority that stretching an able child. I live in London and moving is not an option. I am asking these questions now as local private schools have long waiting lists (some encourage parent s to register from birth).

I am in a position where I could afford private school for a couple of years. At the moment I am thinking of paying for her to attend a local private school with the view of applying for a scholarship place if she proves to be academically able in the future. I wouldn't be able to afford her whole schooling at a private school.

I appreciate my post is long so I will stop here but happy to answer any specific questions.

Final thing. I have no idea about how the private system works and am just starting to get my head around it. Id really appreciate to hear other people's experience (I know their are a lot of mumsnetters with children at private school).

@HeyThereDelila without going into the ins and outs of it, I have very limited family support. So moving would be us completely on our own somewhere in a place I've never been. It's a big thing. In London I do have a support network.

I am not planning on doing private for her whole school time - unless she somehow received a bursary which, as pps have pointed out, are few and far between.

I am certainly NOT pushing academics down her throat, not will I ever. We do go to baby groups, we do go to stay and play, we go to the library twice a week, we do play football and yesterday we spent an hour playing with dirt 🤦 i agree with you that's what childhood is about. What I don't want to do is send her to a school where she isn't learning and so her evenings have to be spent doing more enrichment or tutoring etc. That's the time she should be playing! (Sounds like a rant, but I think we are agreeing on the same thing!)

I’ve no advice save for enjoy your child whilst she’s young but i also really want to hear a 13mth old say the word ‘parallelogram’. I’m sure it’s very cute.

Haha she can't say parallelogram 🤣 but she does do some very exaggerated tongue movements in a respectable effort.

No I wouldn’t do it in your case. Private for nursery and reception, even years 1-3 is only worth it if you’re wanting to get “in the system” for junior/ secondary. I’d save the money for a house deposit or a bit of tutoring for when your DD is older.

I’d also 100% start looking at a few schools- private and secondary. Many state primaries have excellent early years provision, it’s something that lots of state schools do really well.

There is a popular prep school near me that calls themselves academically selective and does play-based assessments for entry at age 2. They make the children do stick figures and see how straight the lines are. Honestly, it's just a PR thing and there is no way you can judge a child's academic ability at this age using play based assessments. It's just random selection at this stage. On of my friends' obviously smart DC was rejected here but he got into a more selective prep at 7+ and is now at Eton. 7+ is the earliest you can judge academic skills imo.

I will echo what all PPs have said, Y1-2 in private really doesn't make a difference. Invest that money in a cash ISA and use it for trips/language lessons/activities in secondary!

Stick figures?? Bloody hell, I'd fail that assessment for sure. It's actually quite hilarious.

You’re not really engaging with people’s posts OP.

Private nursery (if you mean at preschool age) is absolutely not cheaper than state preschool. If you sent your DD to a preschool attached to a primary, she’d be in uniform and have the academic structure you seem to want, and it would be free.

It makes no logical sense for you to send your DD to a private preschool/reception. The only reason people do this is to avoid having to move them later, because it is an easier entry point than at 7+ when, rather than drawing stick figures, they’re expected to sit maths and English tests. If you’ve got limited resources they would be much better spent at a later stage of your DD’s education. You seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder about state education but no actual recent experience, and simultaneously are buying into all the private school marketing without applying any critical thought to it.

And fwiw, the children coming into schools in London who don’t speak English as their first language almost always end up the highest performing students as they tend to come from backgrounds where education is supported and prioritised. If you look at the demographic info for the super selective grammars in London this is very obvious.

I think any mention of private education tends to polarise people and make lots of us defensive.
I think, if I've understood you correctly, your main concerns are 1. where to place your daughter for the first couple of years of her education when you continue to live where you are and 2. how to support a potentially academically very capable but possibly neurodivergent/prone to mental health issues individual to thrive growing up and make the most of their potential in a way that makes them happy.

1. For the years you are talking about, I think the most important things are quite hard to ascertain at this stage. The key thing for a nursery/reception/y1 child is the competence (including emotional competence) of the adults immediately supporting them, i.e. their teacher/TA/keyworker and the peers that they end up spending time with. When you need to make those decisions, I would do my best to find out about those people and the setting leadership. It may be that where you are, private reception feels like the best thing for your daughter. (I'm not in favour of private education, personally, but if you are, I can't see that moving from private reception y1 to state y2/3 is going to necessarily be a disaster.)
2. If only there was an easy answer to this bit! But I think the fact that you are obviously a thoughtful, considered and (appropriately) aspirational parent counts for a lot of this. You're unlikely to make perfect decisions all the time, but you're interested in tuning in and making the best holistic decisions for your daughter, and that's a big advantage for her.

Finally, the personal anecdote bit - two of my children are highly academically able. They went to a small state primary - kind, nurturing and really valued relationships and outdoor play, not the most rigorous academically in our town. (Though incidentally the top scoring child at GCSE at the local secondary has come from that primary for at least the last 5 years.) Their secondary was in a state of administrative chaos for much of their time there (requires improvement, new executives parachuted in, on to the 6th head in 7 years at the moment). My eldest achieved top grades in every exam she took throughout her education. I think she could have been more stretched academically, and she was sometimes bored at school/helping the other kids rather than working on her own stuff, but she has done well enough and had lovely friends and teachers and a nice time. (Currently on a gap year before Oxford.) I think bright kids can do well anywhere, especially with the type of home support you are obviously keen to provide her with.

I was a gifted child and it was apparent way before age 7. I am now a senior academic.

@thewalrus thank you for your thoughtful response and kind words.
You've completely understood my position and the factors involved. The only thing I would add is that the state of the primary schools in my catchment area are really pushing me to consider private for those early years.
I am not an advocate of private education (I actually feel like a bit of a hypocrite for considering private at all).

Like your children, I had a very positive experience in a friendly village primary school. It had a dedicated hearing impaired unit, with lots of ta's and lots of small group work and 1 on 1 support. I really thrived there, it gave me confidence and I owe my GCSE and a level results to that school. We moved location on year 4 to a school that was not great, and then again to a secondary school that was quite simply awful (we had frequent bomb scares, kids setting off fireworks in the playground and slashing the teachers tires, fights with other schools etc).

From my own experience I saw how important a good early years education is and also how damaging a bad school experience can be. Both were state schools so I have no experience of private. I think a bright child will do well if the secondary school is a bit rubbish because at that age learning is more self directed but I would hate for my daughter to have a negative first experience of school.

I hope that makes sense.

Being intelligent and being academic are two very different things. I have intelligent children that just don't cope with the way school is structured. I'm very lucky that my oldest is on a bespoke interest-led (mainstream) curriculum now, but that took a huge amount of effort and total autistic burnout before it was in place.

Very true! Sorry for not making the distinction.

No need to apologise.

Where autism is a possible factor it's important to make the distinction. Autistic children usually love learning, but the things they want to learn aren't necessarily what schools value.

Thinking of the autistic children in the groups I attend there's kids who know everything in the world about dinosaurs or space or horses or Lego. Lots of passion and enthusiasm and knowledge for learning. But not things that schools tend to value or tap into.

I dislike rigid curriculums for that very reason. Of course schools need to cover the basics but outside of that I think it's so important to let children explore special interests. They still be developing academic skills and it helps to foster a lifelong love for learning. A boy with autism at my school had a special interest in Roman civilization. Honestly he knew everything worth knowing. It was quite outstanding really!

OK given your situation, the only other thing I would consider is if there's a fairly local Roman Catholic / C of E primary school where admission criteria is based on church attendance.

You'll need to double & triple check the admissions criteria and how places were allocated in previous years to know whether you stand a chance.

If you like the look of them I would consider attending church for the next few years. I know this is morally a grey area, however, there will always be 'non-believers' that do this to get their DC into a better school

I dislike rigid curriculums for that very reason. Of course schools need to cover the basics but outside of that I think it's so important to let children explore special interests

All schools follow the curriculum, private and state. Where there is more space in the private school timetable this is used for things like extra sport and music (again, timetabled or you might say rigid), not doing projects on Ancient Greece.

The only thing I would add is that the state of the primary schools in my catchment area are really pushing me to consider private for those early years

Where do you live OP? For reference I live in one of the most deprived boroughs in London and literally every primary school is at least good if not outstanding. London is incredibly well-served by good and excellent primaries (very different story at secondary) so I’m sorry but I just find your repeated insistence that your only options are sink schools very hard to believe. The birth rate has been dropping year on year so there will increasingly be spaces at primaries including ones that you may think you are out of catchment for (and nb there aren’t really catchments in London - you can apply anywhere with places allocated on distance).

I think you need to wait and see tbh. By the time your child is 4 they may be very different. A friend's child was hugely advanced with writing and recognizing words and letters (but not speech) and is now in a special school with significant needs not obvious until they were 2.5-3.

Given the likelihood of ND I would say smaller classes, a good understanding of SEN and a nurturing environment would be top of my list.

This won't always be found at a private school and won't always go hand in hand with stretching a child academically / letting them follow their interests.

You may want to look at alternative style schooling.

OP you are way jumping the gun. Every parent think their child is going to be the next Einstein. With my son, he was typically developing until he regressed, then his first words were numbers, shapes and letters. Look up hyperlexia, most commonly this is a sign of ND. He could say rhombus before he could ask for a snack. He cannot follow the routines of the school day and needs an EHCP, but on paper he’s a genius because he can do academic things that 5-7 are only just learning.

On the private school thing it’s really up to you, often the class sizes are smaller, which I think benefit most children, and look at the approach, whether it’s Montessori or another pedagogical approach that aligns with how you think your child will benefit from educationally. Get the vibe from the teachers as to whether they actually teachers or nursery practitioners. Early years teachers working in the private sector will usually have the child’s wellbeing and development at the heart of early years education, rather than focussing purely on academic potential.

Also, your child will categorically not be ‘bored’. Your attitude on that side of things is at risk of being projected on her though and making her think that she’s bored if you let it. Early years is all learning through play which is so important for the vast majority of children, even my son benefits from this even though his play is not always typical.

That's not quite true. There are plenty of alternative private schools that do not do that. Here are a few I know of

https://www.educaresmallschool.org.uk/

https://www.lumiar.co.uk/

thelondonacornschool.co.uk/

Right yes, I should have said all mainstream private schools follow the curriculum.

If OP wants to pursue alternative education for her child she hasn’t mentioned it yet. She’s been talking about academically selective private schools, which those certainly are not.

Sadly not my experience of Prep school. You are not buying a tailor-made learning plan for your child....Same curriculum year in, year out. Interested in Dinosaurs? Excellent, but you'll need to do that in your own time because Y2 is The Greeks. Life cycle of frogs? Great, but again do that in your own time because we're doing the Moon Phases. Prior year lesson plans are dragged out and dusted off. And so on. It is infuriating and you will be labelled as 'that parent' if you challenge this I'm afraid...

To clarify, I said I dislike a rigid curriculum but accept that's what we have in this country . 😊

I would echo PPs in that Prep / Private school pre-schools and Reception classes tend to follow a more, rather than less, rigid curriculum than their state counterparts. Because what many parents are buying is a ‘more academic’ ‘more recognisably school-like’ experience, many private school Early Years provision is in fact extremely rigid, static, highly teacher directed and inflexible.

State Early Years provision, on the other hand, both in pre-school and school settings, is much more likely to be open-ended, hands-on, child-focused and dictated by children’s interests - learning through facilitated play.

If you want a flexible curriculum that will follow your child’s interests, quiz your target private schools VERY carefully and ask eg whether they did this topic last year; how have they adapted it for this year’s class; can they give a recent example of a topic chosen to match a specific pupil’s interest. You may be surprised that, despite the smaller classes with a narrower spread of ability, this enables the schools to further standardise the curriculum not tailor it.

If you ask a good state pre-school or Reception classes teacher the same questions, you again may be surprised how forthcoming they are about the flexibility of their provision.

Also wanted to make a point on costs that you have not responded to:

• Normal day nurseries are open almost all year round, usually very early to very late.
• Private school nursery classes are open term time only (so up to 16 weeks of holiday per year) and are often only open 9-3.

Obviously this is not a problem if ypu have no need for childcare. However, if you are going to work, then you need to factor in holiday childcare and wrap-around care into your overall cost calculation.