To consider private school

[HowManyDucks]

I hesitated about putting this question to AIBU as I know it is a decisive issue on Mumsnet, but it is ultimately an AIBU so I've put my hard hat on.

I'm being very honest and am writing things that I would never say out loud. It's not humble brag. I am just trying to work out the best thing to do for DD (like every mum does).

Private school was not on my radar at all but I am a firm believer in parenting the child you have. I'm trying to work out whether sending to DD to a private school would actually be in her best interest or whether it is just trying to compensate for my own incredibly disappointing school experience.

Some context.
My brother was a maths whizz (getting As in a level maths and further maths age 14 without ever picking up a revision book). He never went to uni and 10 years after leaving school, works in Tesco. (Nothing wrong with that of course but so much wasted potential). I, on the other hand, was a bright (not exceptional like my brother) all rounder, think straight As at GCSE and A level. I was offered a music scholarship to a fancy private school but wasn't allowed to go. I resented this for a long time. I went to a bog standard secondary and hated every second of it. I would hate for DD to have to go through what I went though. Most of my classmates went into vocational jobs and apprenticeships after school instead of uni. I joined the military because I didn't this uni was for people from my background. So that's where I am coming from. I grew up in a single parent household, with an alcoholic mother where education was not prioritised. For her, private school was for posh people with more money than sense.

Fast forward to having DD. I am a single mum. DD is 13 months old. I'm getting ready to go back to work and so have been on the hunt for a nursery.

I understand that babies develop at different rates and that hitting milestones 's early doesn't correspond with intelligence. However, it is becoming increasingly difficult to hide how advanced my DD is and people are commenting a lot. She took her first steps at 7.5 months, walking confidently at 9. At 12 months had a vocabulary of 90+ words (only counting the words she used consistently and in context), could identify approx 10 shapes (like parallelogram and trapezium), she knows approx 20 letters of the alphabet (phonetically) and is pointing out letters when we are out and about. She can recognise some familiar words and is showing an interest in reading. She is excellent at following instructions, I talk to her like I would a five or six year old.
She is 13 months 🤦

After some recent threads about behaviour in primary schools i am increasingly worried about whether our local state schools would be best for her (not their fault but if course). Supporting SEND, managing behaviour, and helping all children achieve national average is a greater priority that stretching an able child. I live in London and moving is not an option. I am asking these questions now as local private schools have long waiting lists (some encourage parent s to register from birth).

I am in a position where I could afford private school for a couple of years. At the moment I am thinking of paying for her to attend a local private school with the view of applying for a scholarship place if she proves to be academically able in the future. I wouldn't be able to afford her whole schooling at a private school.

I appreciate my post is long so I will stop here but happy to answer any specific questions.

Final thing. I have no idea about how the private system works and am just starting to get my head around it. Id really appreciate to hear other people's experience (I know their are a lot of mumsnetters with children at private school).

Hi op I would visit local schools open days. Many middle clsss parents with bright kids send their kids there and they do well especially in London.
If you're happy to share which are of London you're in then maybe private school parents could share if their school has a nursery. Eg I saw orchard house school advertising bursaries from age 8 for state school pupils. Godolphin and latymer has an outreach programme to teach state school pupils about butsairies and applying for private schools.

All of this.
You say you are worried she will be bored. The children will be grouped. There will be other bright children and , if appropriate, she will be put with them. The bright children will be stretched. The less able will be supported at their level.
Many children come into school appearing to be at a more advanced level than their peers . This evens out hugely over the Reception year .
You ( and she) absolutely sound as if there may be neurodiversity there .
If you put your daughter in a private school it will be very hard for both of you to give that up. Realistically you can't afford it.

OP I think you need to visit schools and dispel some myths.i have been to both so can speak about attending both.

Private schools aren’t always better and can have lots of SEN kids who attend them too as the smaller classrooms can be ideal. Councils also pay many children to attend private schools as the local may not be able to accommodate those children locally.

Behaviour of children comes from the children and private schools doesn’t mean child don’t behave like that. Also parent that can afford it may send their SEN kids who haven’t been diagnosed yet as the setting may be better for them. Of course a lot of SEN kids aren’t disruptive but I mention it here as you brought it up.

You say your child is advanced and may be bored - while this may be true today you don’t know how their development will be in 3/4 years.

Private schools aren’t more automatically advanced in their teaching. There are still standards and national curriculum (because standards for exams have to be the same for uni etc). They don’t always ‘push’ the more advanced kids and for example our local primary has stretch work and extra work for those kids who were bored.

Most private schools don’t stream as such as there aren’t enough kids per class and with SEN kids the classes aren’t all teaching at Einstein level. Secondary schools will stream for levels.

Also, you don’t know what your child will be into - sport? art? music? Does the private schools offer these? Do they have enough kids at the school for a school team as many don’t. Our local secondary over over 120 clubs and team etc. There really is something for everyone.

i would save the money and spend it on clubs, outside activities etc. Does your child really want to change schools after a few years?

Kids can be self driving but a strong support for academics at home would get your kid there. We believe in academics at home and there are kids at my kids school who will be attending Oxbridge and Russell group in the autumn. So my child has every opportunity to get there too and it will be down to them. Private school will give them a setting where more are likely to go and academics are important but it isn’t the only route.

Honestly please get out of your head that private is automatically better. It may be right for your child but you don’t really know at 13 months.

You do bring your own experiences to your school choice. Dh absolutely hated having a long bus journey to his school and living miles away from friends so for him it was important his kids could walk to school and live in the community where the school is.

If your dd is walking early as well as talking early that means she is likely to be an all rounder which is good because alot of the brain power jobs will be taken by AI.

I suspect social skills will be paramount for getting the high powered jobs that are left.

If you have alcohol addiction in the family then you might want to be wary of some private high schools where there are drugs and anorexia problems. Also some prepare girls for the marriage market rather than pushing academics. On the other hand your brother had been poorly served by pushing academics. So grammar school might not help either.

You might be best looking at an area where there is an outstanding primary and high school. This means there are likely to be like-minded peers. There was recently a school happiness index which I think was helped by having great clubs and pastoral care which can be the most important thing for children with a slightly precarious genetic background.

She also has a half brother with high functioning autism who attends a special school. SEND is on my radar. It is part of the reason why I am prioritising early years because the quicker any learning difference can be picked up the better the outcomes.

I have nothing against state schools at all. She will probably spend the majority of her primary years in a state school. Unfortunately the state schools in my area have their own problems. Its not the area I would choose to raise a child but unfortunately I don't have that choice currently.

For those who say it is important to prioritise play - I agree and don't need persuading. I want my child to have a happy childhood. Part of the reason for considering private nursery is to avoid the hassle and pressure of entrance exams. She certainly won't be getting a tutor 😂

For people saying save for secondary. That's just not an option. I won't be able to afford secondary so she would only go if she she received a bursary, and that would only happen if the school thinks she is a good fit so I think in that case the decision would be much easier.

I do feel under pressure to make decisions now to ensure that when the time comes and I know more about DD that there are options. I don't see harm in registering her now and declining the place later. I might lose £100 on the application but it's worth it to keep options open.

Also I am reading and taking in all comments. It's very helpful to hear others point of view.

It's not always easy to get a place in a state school if you don't apply the normal entry points - reception and year 7. You will get a place somewhere but the best schools will be full. Especially difficult during KS1 as there are stricter limits on class size.

YABU because she is 13 months old! Check out what the local primary schools are like. As someone working in a private school, a good state primary can be as good as private. I don't think that the additional resources are actually that useful at such a young age (unless you desperately want Santa arriving in a helicopter, or a professional quality recording suite for little Johnny's scratchy violin performance...)

It definitely makes a difference at secondary level. But... 13 months old!!!!

Pastoral care is my top priority, it trumps academic rigour any day. In my family there's a history of autism (both sides), addiction (both sides), anorexia (both sides) and depression. It's easy for a child's needs to be overlooked when they are achieving top grades. I am keen to break that cycle, to help DD and to ensure she has the right support (if needed) and the tools to deal with challenges in life in a healthy way. It's not about getting into a top uni or getting straight As, but instead ensuring she has a happy childhood with the right support. I feel there's a lot of responsibility on my shoulders to get it right.

I think you have misunderstood my reasons for considering private.

Given this list of potential issues I would say that a nice state school would be the greatest gift you can ever give to your daughter I would prioritise this above everything else . My neighbour's daughter was at a private school from 7. By 8 she had raging anorexia. Her experience ( at 8!!!!) was that you didn't count unless you were the tallest, slimmest, prettiest, cleverest, good at sport. She was very clever but short and ' ordinary'. It was absolute torture for her.

The thing is OP the early years are actually done very well at state. With kids aged 5-7 you do not have the behavioural issues you see later on and at this age private schools are not really selective like they are later.

Private schools will claim they are working at a more advanced level but honestly at age 5/6 you will see very little difference between kids in a private school and kids in a reasonable state school.

That's why people spout things like 'state til 8' and you find numbers at private school increase as you go up the year groups.

In decades gone by private schools gave out extremely generous scholarships to very bright children eg 90 or 100% discounts, but those days are gone now and most scholarships are 10%, 20% at the very most.

There are a tiny number of bursaries but for these you'd need low income and expect your finances to be scrutinised very closely.

Also pretty much all little babies and toddlers love being read a story, love turning the pages, they love sitting on mums knee and the sound of mums voice. You are almost certainly reading too much into things convincing yourself she is super duper advanced, I'm sure she's a bright little girl but you can really tell nothing at this age. Early walking is not linked to advanced academic achievement at all.

God that is terrible! My worst nightmare.

I wanna see the video of the 13 month saying 90 clear, intelligible words without prompting from a parent, identifying a parallelogram independently, consistently recognising phonic graphemes etc.

I nearly peed myself reading it.honestly op you will look back in 10 years time and be completely mortified that you put this online 😂

Op, I understand you. I was there, with an exceptionally able DS (and a more ‘normally’ bright DD).

However, I came to make the above point: at Reception, you have only the ‘normal’ admissions barriers to navigate to get into ‘the best state primary in your area’. You put it on your form, you are considered against all other applicants using the over-subscription criteria for the 30/60/90 places.

At Year 1, you have the much higher barrier that the class is already full, and you are relying on movement out to create a place for your child to fill. While falling rolls in London may mean that fewer classes are full, the ‘best’ one you may want for your child is much less likely to have places than the ‘ok’ one down the road.

Joining state in Reception gives you the best chance of getting a place in a school
that you want. (This is one of the reasons that canny private schools keep fees for Reception relatively low - they know that the barriers to moving to excellent state at Y1 are high so they will keep more pupils)

Also - and I speak from experience of both DS and DD - Reception in state schools can be absolutely excellent for the unusually able. The free-flow learning through play model - while it looks chaotic to the outsider - in fact gives freedom for such children to learn at their own level. DS browsed the book corner for non-fiction while others admired the pictures; constructed football league tables including negative numbers; calculated with 4-6 digit numbers on the whiteboard in the ‘school’ role play area. DD wrote multi-page stories and painted realistic copies of book illustrations using the tiniest of brushes.

Y1, with its ‘now sit down and listen to the lesson’ was much more difficult, and was when we ended up needing to find a different school for DS through moving. Luckily, both thrived in good state schools with a cohort containing able children, and both have university destinations that reflect their ability.

I’d also second enrichment - music, sport, dance / drama, art clubs, etc etc. The discipline and tenacity required to become really excellent at any of these in a high quality specialised setting has stood mine in good stead, and in both cases the freedom to find the best provision in the community rather than being tied to ‘in school provision’ in a single private school has given them much, much higher quality training.

This comment made me laugh. You clearly have no idea.

Hint. Every mother sees signs of genius in their child. They all love books/being read to etc Loads of people are very able at maths with fuck all work - there are 3 boys among the kids in my family who just never have to be taught any of it.

Early walking i found was completely uncorrelated with aptitude in any area at all, whether physical or cognitive. Its quite culturally influenced, children in many African and caribbean communities tend to sit and walk earlier for example.

Save it for Secondary if needed.
I have one really bright child and one a bit above average and both did well in a good, mixed, large Primary. In fact I think it gave them some advantages over their peers that had been in Private since 3/4.
If we had a decent State Secondary available we would have opted for that as well

This is a very wise post OP but a couple of years in a private school will not help these issues and may hinder.

But firstly - it is really important to understand that there is no perfect solution and no such thing as perfect parenting. Whatever we do to avoid making the mistakes our parents made, which traumatised our childhoods, we end up making different mistakes that traumatise our children in different ways. There is no avoiding this. Accept that you are imperfect and that is ok. Mistakes are forgivable.

You would have to be exceptionally careful to identify a private school with the attitude you want. Most will pay lip-service to the whole child and the importance of play and creativity but the chief priority of the majority of paying parents is getting the highest possible academic results and the school will deliver to that expectation.

But more importantly than this is that if it's likely your child may have neurodiversity issues, the process for identifying and supporting her needs, especially as an academically able child, is going to be a very difficult process to navigate. It will be more difficult, not less, if you have her in private to start with and later move to state. Getting an EHCP organised to facilitate a smooth transition from private to state for a child with neurodiversity is nigh on impossible - the state mechanism requires the child to make the transfer without any EHCP, at which point if the child falls apart and is unable to cope with the transition the process may then kick off and you eventually get your EHCP after 2 years of school refusal/trauma/eating disorders etc. That hopefully won't happen for your DD but it's within the range of possibilities for an academically advanced neurodiverse girl. Not that it would be plain sailing in the state sector but you could at least use the money you aren't spending on school fees to help in other ways - especially perhaps funding play therapy if she starts developing the kinds of anxiety issues that can be common among highly intelligent neurodiverse children, or funding other kinds of therapies and diagnostics to help maximise how much she is able to thrive and enjoy her childhood. The intelligence she has is not going to go away, it will always be there.

@0ohLarLar - you mock, but it’s far from unusual in babies / toddlers with autism. They are “pattern seeking” and so recognise shapes and letters etc from very young.

Shape recognition is not the same as recognising phonic graphemes and understanding how the sounds join together to make words which is what reading is.
Its extremely extremely unlikely that OP's 13 month old is recognising phonic graphemes. She may recognise a word in the sense that it's akin to a picture and if she's been told many times what it is she will recognise the shapes and say the word. That isn't reading. Its like children will often recognise 'Asda' or 'Tesco', they are recognising the picture of the word

@Emanresuunknown - ah, ok, not the sound blending, but letters are easy enough for some. And that just reminded me that one of my children could “read” the local supermarket name at a very young age (obviously they couldn’t, but definitely recognised the colour / font etc!)

Given how bad state school funding was under the Tories and is getting worse if anything under Labour, YANBU.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

OP, the nursery attached to private school is similar cost to other nurseries - is that right?
In which case, just put her name down for the nursery you like the most, for her.

I honestly wouldn't worry about secondary just now - you can't afford to save toward it and may well be moving house. So there's nothing you can DO about secondary education now anyway, so no need to try and imagine what your 13 month old will be likevatv13 years old.