He wants to move back to his country - decision making.

[Stanwyck]

I’m in my early 30s and been talking about getting married/having kids etc. We live in the UK and he recently said he’s open to living here for the foreseeable. He is from Denmark originally.

But out of nowhere today he sat me down and said he’s been seriously thinking about it and he wants to return to Denmark within the next decade. He loves me but finds it hard to imagine long term in the UK.

In this country, I have my parents and other family, my best friends and my community. However I do love this man and he’s the only man I’ve wanted kids with. I see myself being with him in 20-30 years time.

Also during this conversation he gave me a beautiful ring and a handwritten poem but didn’t propose. So I view it as a promise ring but a bit strange.

The main issue for me is that I am an only child. When I think about leaving my ageing parents to go it alone, I find that hard. He has a brother who lives near his parents.

I could do with some advice on how to decide whether it is worthwhile/making a decision about the future.

I wouldn't say she hasn't made the effort, or that he's not the love of her life, they haven't been together all that long and she's been to visit once.

I would visit again op, and ask your parents what they think, as he's talking about them visiting regularly. I think you said they could stay at his parents home? I wonder how they'd feel about that.

Giving birth there would be a very bad move as you'd be stuck. I'm also not sure about his cost of childcare worry, you said he has a great job, and you work, so surely you could afford childcare in Scotland?

@Laststraw25 I agree he’s definitely thinking of himself first. He wanted to know if I’d be willing to support his career by moving around some (which may be needed from time to time). To become a trailing spouse.

But I would have a lot to give up. I’d need to give up my comedy career. My family and friends etc.

I told him being an author is non negotiable and a lifelong passion. To that he said he aims to be a very hands on proactive parent, providing me with the time and space i’d need to keep pursuing that.

That's the crux of it. If you are going to be together one of you have to get what they want whilst the other one won't. There is no happy medium and you can't do this in a fair way because you want such different things and the one who is compromising will just start to feel resentment. Even if you say you will live in Scotland and spend summers in Denmark it won't be enough for him because he wants his kids to actually grow up in Denmark and have a childhood similar to his, and the same goes in reverse because you want your kids to have your parents nearby in their every day life, not just for a few weeks a year.

Sorry I don't mean it necessarily makes him a bad parent more like if it was me I'd be worried that he either would be selfish in terms of who's opinions are more important and therefore sick days or annual leave might be unequal and similarly what would happen if he met someone that he would put first regardless of what country they are in. Op has given a bit more information which shows there's some room for talk but the pace and level of expectations feels like he's saying come or stay but he's going either way and even beyond my feelings on that, I watched a podcast with a pastor recently talking to a caller with a very similar expectation from their husband they agreed with my thoughts.

But neither of them wants to live in the other person's country, it's not just him. As a PP said, being single and childfree in a foreign country is a whole different thing to having kids and a family in a foreign country. They are in a fairly new relationship, they are not engaged or married, this is exactly the time to bring this up to see if they are compatible long term and they have discovered that they aren't.

Sorry but this just gets worse.

He only feels the need to go home once a year, but now wants you to uproot your entire life to move there permanently.

And suggesting a trailing spouse role means beyond writing any other work or career you may have had to support this is null and void. And how many female comedians are offered work in Saudi or the ME etc?

It’s a shocking disregard for your career, financial independence and passions in life.

He throws you a breadcrumb that he will let you continue to write! How generous of him.

Jesus op, no wonder you feel like you will lose your entire identity - that’s exactly what will happen. What about your pension? Savings? Family? life? Friendships?

How can he be the one if he can’t see what these things mean to you?

I would either stay with him, and never have children.

Or trust that someone far more suitable will come along. Even if they don’t your life sounds very happy as it is.

there is no way I’d risk being trapped in another country unable to get my kids out. No man is worth that.

@Laststraw25 Yes, I was quite shocked by the conversation yesterday.

Before then he was always hugely supportive of my career and aspirations, driving me to succeed in them here in Scotland. He even said he would be willing to be the main breadwinner or if I wanted to work part time. I don’t know what makes him think I’d be happy with this.

As it stands, I’d like to have children. I don’t have loads of time to do that. I don’t think any child would be worth giving up my entire identity for though.

I joked yesterday would any woman do as long as she agrees to come back to your country, and he said of course not.

But I worry there’s a grain of truth to it.

Yes and in my first comment which you may be missed I said that it's his approach that concerns me. It's absolutely normal to have conversations about where you are going to live/work/start a family but when it's positioned as I'm moving and I want you to come but essentially I'm going either way that's very different and to me shows a prioritizing that I don't think works in the long run.

You need to talk to your parents about this. Obviously you don't need to decide right away, but we're talking about three people moving to satisfy one. He also offered to support you iirc, which would leave you jobless in a foreign country. Obviously you could still work there, but if he honestly is worried about childcare costs why isn't he worried about the cost of you giving up your job? Is he just caught up in feeling homesick that's he's not being 100 percent objective? More conversations are required.

@Bigcat25 I suspect he is not being objective because he is looking at committing to me long term and that might mean he can never go home again. He actually cried when he said he wanted to go back eventually, so it’s emotions based.

He also said ‘the kids learning Danish would be non negotiable. I’d need that’ - so I wonder if a compromise could be staying here but staying very close to Denmark.

He’s also gone from saying I support you in your ambitions and passions to oh you could move away with me and choose not to work or work part time. I mean, what?

All this aside, we have such a lovely partnership.

it will be so sad if this is the end of us, but it’s hard for both of us to face not raising our children in our own country.

Might buy this in the meantime!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Raise-Viking-Parenting-Happiest-ebook/dp/B0CBYHNCZT

I still don't think anyone is to blame here. It's really important to have these kinds of conversations and be willing to follow through. So if it's a non-starter to even consider immigrating, then it's really good to know that now as that sounds really important to him. My husband and I got together as teenagers, but there were a couple things we talked about really early on as it was a non-starter for us - I knew I wanted children (agreed) and was absolutely sure I wanted to raise them Jewish (trickier as he was raised Catholic). He really wanted me to take his name when we got married (tricky for me but I did in the end as it was more important to him than me). We both really wanted to move to another country (and did!)... all these things can be dealbreakers without anyone being right or wrong.

I think this is a level of compromise neither of you want to make so you should say fond goodbyes and find someone who wants to build the life you want. You have quite a lot of time to find someone else but just due to biology, there is a limit to how long it's wise to string this out if you definitely want children.

I don't see why you would be shocked that he brought the conversation up, he is not from the UK and of course he is going to think of his future if he is prepared to sacrifice (as you put it) his family.

I was him and I chose UK, I have regretted not being able to move back 'home' now and again but all in all I am happy here and would never leave my kids and move. But it is a big deal both for him and you, you only seem to see your side in this. He hasn't given you an ultimatum but it may come. This is something you need to talk about before kids and maybe be open to try it. Arguably it is easier for him to stay here as he has the language and the experience. As a Scandinavian I don't think it would be easy to move as an adult to a scandi country. We tend to be quite closed off so that friendship groups etc are difficult to penetrate especially if you don't work.

Good luck with any decisions you make

Go. Don't be tied to your parents.

I don't think anyone is wrong here. I don't see him doing a bait and switch and I don't see him really demanding anything. I think a lot of these comments could be said about either of them. They've been together for a bit over a year so this is the point to have these discussions. I don't really see threats, ultimatums or demands. Two people have preferences that might be delayed breakers and they're talking about them and asking questions.

I'm really struggling to see some of his comments about being prepared to be the breadwinner to give you time to write as him demanding anything?

You don’t see op losing her financial independence and her identity by becoming a trailing spouse to support his aspirations as an issue or giving up anything?

As a trailing spouse it’s often impossible to work at all, and you don’t see that op might lose so much of what she has worked all of her life for as a problem?
Least of all her ability to earn and save should the relationship not go the distance?

Yeah, there are a lot of women trapped abroad because their children's father won't let them move back home with the children, who can't earn their own money because their qualifications aren't recognised/they don't speak the language/they aren't allowed to work.

I understand where he’s coming from but I do actually question how likely he is to find someone willing to just agree to move where he wants with no compromise. And to throw away what he says in the best relationship for his life for it?

it might be worth the risk for him if he feels that strongly which is of course also where my head is at.

I’ve started writing all my thoughts and feelings out about it, to start with.

I think your last paragraph is definitely your answer, because if a child isn't worth uprooting for then he won't be either. I don't think moving means you give up your entire identity, but if that is how you feel then it definitely needs to be a hard no from you on this relationship. He might agree to stay with you in Scotland, but it won't be without resentment and then it's just not worth it. You need to find someone who wants the same life you do, you still have time and you sound like a sensible and likeable person.

We have seen them for years on this forum. In dire straits overseas with no right to return without leaving their dc behind, it’s utterly heartbreaking. They don’t have a legal leg to stand on either.

It’s even worse if you are unable to work. You are then really dependent too. I can’t imagine a more difficult scenario than being charged with kidnapping because you really can’t bear the life you have anymore in a foreign country or having your children forcibly removed.

I think it’s this forum that has really opened my eyes to this, and my own experiences of ex pat life to some degree. I think for it to work most have to have very little here in the U.K. to begin with, as it can be very tough in the long term.

I think it's easy for people with no experience to say 'Go for it! The UK is rubbish/elsewhere is much better.'

But the kind of life you lead when you marry someone from the country is not usually led in an expat bubble. If you end up in their home town, far from the opportunities a capital or very large city can offer, I imagine it can be a lonely life if you don't speak the language.

Even when you do it's hard to have to keep making new friends and facilitating house moves as a trailing spouse. This has been my experience, albeit within one country. And I was fortunate to have diplomas and a career. I put it on a back burner for several years but I'm doing well now. It's what has allowed me to leave my marriage and stay here independently. I dread to think what my life woukd have looked like had I not had that, or a near native proficiency in the language.

Also I would say many women lose their identity to some extent throughout the child-rearing years, even when they stay in their own country. When you're far from home it's compounded.

Trust your gut instinct on this, OP. I was young and naive when I made the choice I did. And I'd had quite an unhappy childhood, so I made the decision to stay quite willingly.

You are older and wiser. You have a full and happy life. A strong sense of self. The way you're questioning all this shows that you have good boundaries.

I'm not saying leave him, but you and your dreams and aspirations are equal to his. You have to be able to make it work for both of you.