He wants to move back to his country - decision making.

[Stanwyck]

I’m in my early 30s and been talking about getting married/having kids etc. We live in the UK and he recently said he’s open to living here for the foreseeable. He is from Denmark originally.

But out of nowhere today he sat me down and said he’s been seriously thinking about it and he wants to return to Denmark within the next decade. He loves me but finds it hard to imagine long term in the UK.

In this country, I have my parents and other family, my best friends and my community. However I do love this man and he’s the only man I’ve wanted kids with. I see myself being with him in 20-30 years time.

Also during this conversation he gave me a beautiful ring and a handwritten poem but didn’t propose. So I view it as a promise ring but a bit strange.

The main issue for me is that I am an only child. When I think about leaving my ageing parents to go it alone, I find that hard. He has a brother who lives near his parents.

I could do with some advice on how to decide whether it is worthwhile/making a decision about the future.

I think this is the crux of it.

Your line in the sand is your children are born in Scotland, where you have your support network around you, with a view to maybe moving to Denmark once you've had time to make an informed decision.

You are not willing to commit to a move just because he wants to go back:

1)Because the long-term implications for you are so monumental.
2)Because he has said he doesn't see himself long-term in Scotland, a country he knows, loves, speaks the language of and has a job in, so why is he expecting you to commit to a country you don't even know?!
3)Because it is all so sudden and one-sided, and sounds like you're being given an ultimatum. And this suggests that the relationship is not truly equal.

And if you do agree to go, as a pp pointed out, and as I am now doing, you have to accept that by doing so you will need to ready to stay there until your future children are adults, potentially forever, whether you stay together or not.

That's a huge commitment, and one your boyfriend has realised he's not willing to make for you, it would seem.

Sorry, I'm banging on here, but this question of equality is so important.

I think we can be blinded by our emotions and how happily in love we are when we are young and in love. But the things that really matter when you're in it for the long-haul are mutual respect, open and honest communication, and true equality.

It's a tough one. He may be very homesick for whatever reason at the moment, but it sounded like he's considered this before telling you. The message is that he'll be leaving at some point with or without you. I'd say it's not fair on you because he met you when you were settled in your home country. He's the one who made the choice to come to the UK and build a life here and this 'choice' he's making you face is always harder on the partner who hasn't made the decision to emigrate. Effectively, that's what he's asking you to do. Not relocate together for a bit to enable a career opportunity; he's asking you to permanently emigrate if you want a long term future with him. I personally don't think that's a fair request. It will end up in resentment for one of you at some point. Unfortunately, this does bring your compatibility into question. There is a romanticised view of cross-national relationships (I blame TV and film for that!) that it's nothing much really and if two people are essentially compatible they find a way. It's more complicated than that. Feelings of belonging are important and people are more than their marriage/relationships. They have to be or it would be stifling and unhealthy! So the question is: would YOU want to build a life in Denmark for yourself completely independently of him? If the answer is no, that's your answer... You will have to be completely honest with yourself first and foremost or it won't stand a chance.

From an outsiders perspective with no emotional ties to either place it completely makes sense to move to Denmark and raise kids there. The quality of life, especially for kids, is just not at all comparable to the UK. He will always win from a logical point of view.

However, life doesn't work like that because we do have emotions and ties and sometimes the most logical choice isn't the best one. It's kind of like choosing between two jobs. Job 1 pays 200K a year, you get to travel the world, live in a swanky apartment but you don't get time to see your loved ones or spend the money you are earning. Job 2 pays 40K and you live in a small 1 bed apartment around the corner from your best friend and although you have no acute money worries you also don't have substantial savings and the little you have is spent on having fun with your loved ones.

The 200K job is Denmark and the 40K job is Scotland.

Only you can decide OP but I think Denmark is one of the best countries in the world to live. I wouldn’t have children unless actually married. And I wouldn’t move until I had talked everything through with him - all the worst case scenarios.

I agree with other posters about being near parents. I would not want my daughter to base her life around being near me. She needs to live her own life, not worry about caring for old people.

Oh OP.

You’ve not been together that long. You’re still early days really. I’d insist on having the children here.

I really would take a long time to consider this. I say this because my brother has done the same as you and he’s now suicidal because he’s trapped abroad by having children there.

You’ll be 43 in ten years time, his timeline; so surely you’d have had your children here by that point.

It seems to me that you are both at this critical point in your lives where you're contemplating the future and neither of you want to be away from family etc. In fact you're actually both kind of the same really, but just the home = a different country.
If he's feeling strongly, and well he might, that he wants to go back to Denmark at some point and he doesn't want the rest of his life to be in Scotland. Then you do need to find a compromise. So could it be a holiday home and you go there every summer and school hols? Or is it that he wants the kids raised in the Danish system?
Everyone has deep rooted things they dont want to compromise. But they do. I wanted my kids to have a different education than the one they have (IB not A levels) but in the end it turned out not to be as important as I thought when they were born. I also dont live in the country of my birth or the country I was raised in. I live in the UK kind of randomly but it does feel like home now after all these years. But neither of my parents live here. And I don't know what I'll do if and when they need me but I'll figure it out.
I guess as the life you both have is in Scotland, it's for him to declare his hands now which he's doing and you have to take it at face value and it seems to be that you feel it's too much of an ask, which is fair enough. So id probably split up then unfortunately

I just want to say I feel you. I'm in a similar position. There are thing that are objectively or logisticslly smarter choisea. Then there is the emotional side that also matters. Location does matter.

I enjoy my life, my sports team, my friends, my hobbies. I enjoy my family traditions. I like the familiarity of home. I always imagined having kids and just posing over to my parents and grandparents' sleepovers. Me and my friends having play dates. Going with my partner to family events and having a nice extended family around. I've always envisioned raising kids a certain way and the other option seems so foreign. But i also love my bf. Of course he brings me a lot of joy but the life is just so different from what I envisioned. Moving would bring a lot of good. It is just hard sometimes.

How very difficult for both of you.

There is I am sure a good life to be made in either country, but I would wish to have the chidlren here first so that they have UK passports and more options if the relationship were to break down. Waiting till after children also gives him more time to embed in the UK and put down roots and he might then feel more inclined to stay.

I would not emigrate and have my children over there, even if I decided to move there later. The place of birth of the children would be my bottom line.

Is he clear about what makes him want to move there? Are they similar to the reasoning that is making you want to be here?

So he has everything here but wants to move back. Some of it could be the pressure he feels to be near family when he has children. No grandparent wants to live in another country and not see grandchildren grow up. As people age travelling becomes more tiring. He may feel an internal or even have an external pressure because of this.

My friend worked in the USA and met someone. Got divorced after 10 years but had to remain due to her child being an American. She returned at the end of 2019 having stayed for at least 15 years more than she would have. Her Father had died by then.

If you didn't want kids, I'd say go for it (if you wanted to), but children make this so much more complicated. You could end up completely trapped there.

I would be telling him the absolute truth. He is someone who you say feels like home. If he is truly a committed life partner then he should be able to explore how you feel without the relationship falling apart.

To be fair to him, perhaps he was cool with a future in Scotland but homesickness crept in, the heart wants what it wants. Don't be angry at him for this, after all, the same could happen to you after a few years in Denmark.

You seem close to your family and happy with your life. You have no guarantees how it will be in Denmark for you in terms of fitting in, friendships, work, language, missing home and family. He has a really good idea of how Scotland is. He gets the informed choice, you get the gamble.

So, perhaps it's this. Tell him you love him and you want to make your life with him. You are uncertain about Denmark. To be sure you would maybe need to have had the same chance to experience it as he had in the UK - many years of living there. You have a strong feeling you want to have your kids in Scotland as it is home - with all of your friends and family around you instead of a bunch of people you only just met and your parents on a visit. You cannot guarantee that you will want to move to Denmark or live there long term although you are not closed to the idea and could explore it more but with no guarantees. Don't be afraid of the break up if it happens. What is meant to be is meant to be, but decide now if you do want kids as you will still have time.

You mention suggesting ttc (in Scotland) before finalising your respective decisions. That seems a bad idea. You and he would have the same challenge and uncertainty but with a DC involved. Sort out first what you’re each prepared to do (or not).

But it sounds like she wants to be near her parents not just an obligation. I chose not to move away with work because I wanted to be near my mum when the kids were little. It was a great opportunity but I don’t regret it. I spent a lot of time with my mum when the children were babies and toddlers. I still see her regularly. She still fit and healthy thankfully. I just wanted to be near my mum. I made that clear to my DH and he accepted that.

I can't stop thinking about you and your dilemma, OP.

You could move to Denmark now, with water-tight, iron-clad contraception, and see how you get on. You might love it. You might pick up the language, find a great job, make lots of friends and start new hobbies.

You will also see your boyfriend in his home environment. See his family dynamics over more than just a week. I didn't pay close enough attention to my ex's family dynamics (we didn't live near them, the language/culture barrier was still there in the early years) and in hindsight I really should have done because they were very telling.

You'll get a feel for how things work in Denmark and get to judge for yourself whether it's the place where you'd like to spend the rest of your life.

I think you'd need to give it a couple of years to give the newness a chance to wear off and the reality of daily life to sink in. You'd also need to see how the relationship develops in the new context. The dynamics will certainly shift as you risk becoming more dependent on him, financially and socially. You'd need to do your best to make your own friends and have a job that could support you and any future children, should you decide to stay and then later down the line split up.

Then, and only then, would you be able to make a decision about where you can see the rest of your life.

At that point you'd be on a more equal footing, having both experienced the other's country.

However you may find that you still feel the way you do now, only you'll be two years older.

Breaking up and starting over then won't be any easier than now. It would arguably be even harder as you'd have to move back home, look for a job etc. You will probably be in even deeper with your dp by then and might find the sunk costs fallacy will keep you in Denmark, even if it's not what you really want.

But it is probably the only way that I, personally, would be prepared to consider moving to Denmark.

As Loopytiles says, don't start trying for a baby until you're sure.

Agree with this - if he says the relationship is over unless you are willing to move to Denmark, then the inference is that he has actually decided to go back. I would wantto understand what is behind this sea change - has something happened at work, is he hacked off with the way things are going economically/politically in the UK, has he had a conversation with family back home and had his conscience pricked by something they’ve said? If may be that this sudden change is a knee jerk reaction to something he’s not acknowledged consciously or hasn’t shared.

Either way, it’s not a conversation about ‘whether’ you would consider living there, it seems to be a thinly veiled ultimatum that has come out of the blue. I think he needs to explain his thinking more and leave space to reach the compromise many have suggested - you remain in Scotland but spend summers in Denmark as any children grow up so they have access to their Danish roots and language too. This would be such a privileged position to be in, raising children with a foot in each country and access to the EU for their university education etc.

I wouldn’t have kids first when you don’t know what you’re going to be doing or where you’re going to be living. Bringing children into the situation isn’t ideal.

One thing I will say OP as someone who has lived there is I would only consider it if it was Copenhagen . A lot of Denmark is lovely , but it isn’t exciting , it’s ordered and a lot of it is quite dull and jobs where you wouldn’t need some Danish are fewer. Copenhagen I love and you can get by very well without Danish .You mentioned your hobbies- Copenhagen has a great comedy house that is all in English - with kids it’s an unusual situation, it has fantastic and cheap childcare but most parents work - so the amount of ‘activities’ out there for daytime babies and toddlers to me seemed very low compared to UK -being honest Copenhagen was a place I would have been very happy to stay even if I was no longer in the relationship , but we are all different and I’m not mega family minded ( in the sense of relatives apart from my own children) I certainly wouldn’t go to Eire over Copenhagen.

I only read your comments so apologies if I'm repeating.

My husband and I immigrated to Scotland from the states almost 20 years ago now and had our children here. We aren't only children, but we have the only grandchildren on both sides and for various reasons, his sister and my brother aren't going to be in a position to help either of our sets of parents. So they just... won't have support at all as we are too far and our siblings are too incapable. That is hard to live with now that we are reaching that point with our parents getting older.

However... I'd think nothing of this if my parents were in Denmark and would just go back and forth regularly. I have lots of friends from various countries in Europe and they go back and forth in the school holidays and it's lovely. We only go back to the states every couple of years and our parents try to each come out once a year. It's nothing like the relationships my friends have for their kids for sure.

In the situation you're in, it's trickier as you are from different places so the emotional attachment is different for you both. Him saying 'I want to move back within 10 years' is a very theoretical wish - any number of things can happen in the next 10 years and who knows who we will all be by then. If he's saying 'I want my children to be culturally Danish and born there that's a today conversation - something that he might like to do once the kids are grown up is a really different thing.

There's no real reason to pick Scotland versus Denmark that anyone can advise you on. They're both lovely and safe places to live, you have family and friends in both places, and you are both employable in either. Usually it's an easier call for one of those reasons. So it's really just about both of you being open to picturing both futures and seeing what feels right - there's no version of this where you are both 100% 'winning'.

I'd say that it's very isolating to live in a country you aren't 'from' and it can feel even harder when you have children who are more at home 'here' than 'there' - so maybe thinking seriously about children is what prompted this in his head. Being fun and young and travelling is great but once you're talking about mortgages and school systems and things as simple as what foods your kids will grow up eating it all gets much less fun quickly!

Just adding - the fact that DP says that he’d compromise by moving to Eire instead suggests there is an issue with his perception of the UK that has changed in the last few weeks (again, has something happened at work, is his job less secure, is he fucked off with what Labour and the SNP are doing?)

I can understand a desire to move back to Denmark and be with his family, even if he is asking you to choose between him/his family and your family…. But I don’t understand the logic of moving to Eire at all as it means his desire to leave Scotland is precisely that - a desire to leave Scotland NOT a desire to ‘return’ home. I think you need to dig deep and have a very honest conversation as to what is really going on in his head.

@CautiousLurker01 He has problems with the political and social systems in Scotland, and without going too deeply into it, he is involved in this line of work, so he has a better grasp on it than most.

He said yesterday during the chat ‘oh 1 in 3 children is in poverty here, it’s terrible.’

if so, yes it is terrible. But I wouldn’t not live here with my own child because of it.

I am torn. I love him and he feels like home. He’s been hard to find. But I think right now, I’d sooner break up than go.

Why should it be my parents that lose it and why would I do that to them? Why would I agree to move to Denmark when I barely know the place?

Yesterday this relationship would’ve ended if id say no, never to Denmark. With that in mind, how committed is he to me? These are the questions I’m asking.

What I find difficult is if I need to get to know Denmark before I can decide and form now on our relationship becomes about convincing me to go. I think this would change the dynamic irrevocably.

I would much prefer being with him if he would seriously consider living in either country. If it is Denmark and only Denmark, and either I can be persuaded or not…

Not saying you are wrong. But to be fair, he HAS lived in your country for many years.
You have not tried living in his.

It seems like neither of you are completely happy with the idea of living in the other person's country, so I think this will be something that keeps rearing up in the future as one of you will always be the person that has given something up to make the other happy. Having kids will magnify that resentment. I would call it a day now. Be grateful for the nice time you both had and the love you shared, but if you are serious about wanting children and wanting to be around your own family for that, then cut your ties now and look to the next chapter with someone new.