Husband changing mind about DD left at home

[Gymmum82]

Dd is 11 and in year 6. She has been walking home from school alone since the start of year 5. Initially to someone at home working. Then alone for about 30 mins until one of us came home from work. We’re now up to about 1.5 hours before someone is home. She is a mature, sensible child. Nothing has gone wrong so far.

Since this started she’s been left at home while we popped to the shops, taken younger children to clubs etc. Never for more than an hour or so.

Anyway on Tuesday she forgot her key, she went home with another parent and my younger daughter after school rather than walking home, no drama. She could always have gone to the after school club if that hadn’t have been an option.
After work I picked them both up and went home, younger child has a club so quick turnaround to get back out. I passed husband leaving our home as we got back (he was going to the supermarket) I dropped dd11 at home and left again with younger dd to go to club and passed husband again heading home, pulled over and asked if he was ok and he said he was going back to get DD11. Thought it was odd but carried on my way.

On to today. He’s taken dd9 out to another club. I said I was nipping to the shop, he asked if I was taking dd11. I asked her, she said no, so I said no. He suddenly out of nowhere starts ranting about how she shouldn’t be left alone and we must take her with us whenever we’re going out. I pointed out she’s alone every day after school, he said that’s because we have no other choice, I said we clearly do she can go to after school club. He didn’t reply.
I also pointed out that in 5 months time she will have to get herself to and from high school by herself 2 miles away on foot. She won’t have wrap around and she is old enough to have some independence.
He disagrees and continued to rant about how it’s neglectful parenting and she should never be left alone if there is any other choice.

So AIBU here? Or has he lost his mind?

They just carry them around between lessons here along with bags. There are no lockers.

Either massive puffa jackets in the height of summer or lightweight unzipped jackets in the depths of winter as far as I can tell. Teenagers are weird.

Teenagers need to walk in bad weather in order to learn that sometimes style isn't everything 😉

Also baffled by the people who seem to say that their child might be bored or lonely walking for 40minutes. That's no reason to give up work and drive them. They can listen to endless music or podcasts so need to be bored.

And besides life is sometimes boring and you have to do boring things alone - it's something they need to learn.

I think it’s really individual
at 11 I had sole responsibility for a pony, stuff like when to book the farrier, when to worm etc and my parents had no horse knowledge at all
I would finish school, catch a bus to the stables, ride, muck out, do everything then parents would collect me
(not rich before someone brings that up)

One of the things I really notice on Mumsnet is how car dependent so many people are. Loads of posters would never consider walking anywhere because oh it might rain, which is why I suspect they project this stuff onto their kids as well. It's really no surprise we have such an obesity issue as a country

I think on the whole walking a couple of miles each day is probably good for kids and makes sure they are doing some daily exercise.
I also think it’s very normal in some locations if not in others. We live in a moderate sized town that has spread and merged with the next couple of towns around it. It’s very typical here for kids to walk to/from school unaccompanied from Y5 onwards. My Y4 daughter complains endlessly she can’t also walk alone and is very excited to get to next year and be allowed.
Everyone has a different comfort zone about growing kids independence and every kid is different in terms of maturity, common sense etc so it’s really ok they go at different rates.
You don’t want them in situations where they will feel panicked and abandoned when they are little and you also don’t want them to get to 17/18 with not a scooby how to sort themselves out to get to places, make a meal, wash their clothes etc.
We are way stricter about tech access than most of the kids friends as that’s actually a bigger concern to me for their wellbeing than getting to/from school and clubs independently or being home alone for an hour or so. We all have things we worry about

Some people on here are so detached from reality.My kids have had to stay on their own after school, and get themselves ready and lock up in the morning all the way through high school as i worked 13 hour shifts. There was no other option as childcare past primary school does not exist. Mine are now 16-22 and are pretty self sufficient. They do their own laundry, cook full meals, help in house work, all have jobs, and understand the importance of working. This is by no means rare, this is how a lot of teens get through secondry school, because we no longer live in times were having a SAHP or a part time working parent is viable. I was single, yes, however this isnt unique to single parents, most 2 parent families require both parents to be working full time, and secondry school age children have to learn that independence.

OP a 45 minute walk is fine, with mine, in very poor weather, or if they had after school events that went until it was dark, id pay for a taxi/uber if i was unable to collect due to my working hours, but that was very rare.

I have 2 kids at secondary school, and only know one who does this. She is in year 10 now, and it has only been for the last year. I used to work in attendance at our local high school, and the kids whose parents didn't know if they'd left for school or not because they'd already left were in the minority.

As for an earlier point, we are the absolute opposite end of the country to Scotland, and by the time my kids finish school at 315 it is well on the way to twilight/darkness in the middle of winter. It certainly would be by the end of a 2 mile walk.

An important point is what kind of walk is it? Are there decent pavements, crossings etc etc. A 2 mile walk including a country lane with no pavements is very different to a busy city centre...I'm assuming it can't be the latter if no buses?

Essentially though, there is no reason why your viewpoint is more valid than his OP, so an open discussion seems the most sensible.

Seriously... how do people think children whose parents don't drive get to school? Teleportation?

I honestly think for a lot of mumsnetters they just don't really believe that car free families exist

Bus?

The walk in and of itself is one issue, but the locking up and leaving alone at 11 is another.

I just googled civil twilight hours in Devon (as a place a long way away from northern Scotland). This year, in December it lasts until at least 16:48. A child finishing school at 3.15 with a 2 mile walk home will be back a long time before then.
(yes, I accept that there will be some days with lots of grey cloud where it will darker earlier but children walking home in the dark after school is really not an issue in most of the UK)

I was a helper in a riding school and the whole yard was effectively run by 9 to 15 year old girls in terms of daily tasks after school and at weekends!

It was a remarkably efficient organization as well although rigorously hierarchical - only senior helpers could do the feeding and it was one of the greatest achievements of my childhood when I reached those dizzying heights.

And the weather was often rubbish and we didn't dissolve.

They don't let 9 year olds as helpers any more but most riding schools are still a great example of 12 to 16 years being able to take on significant responsibilities and independence when allowed!

Yes!!! Sorry 😳

This inspred me to look at my route to secondary 20 years ago.

I could walk for 20 mins to the bus stop, take a bus for 5minutes, then another 10min walk from nearest bus stop to the school.

Or walk for 45 minutes the direct route to school. 2 miles exactly apparently.

I didn't find it that odd.

In all honesty it's more like most of the way 🤷🏼‍♀️ - we are lucky in that we can do this with our work schedules - but no, she doesn't get as wet as walking all of the way, and she really appreciates that it is less time for her so is definitely worth it she pretty much dashes the last section and then hangs out with her mates (who arrive early anyway as they come by bus from a different village) - she actually loves being early for this reason! As it's getting lighter and warmer she plans to start biking after Easter which will be better on a few levels so this may be any option too?

I did actually think that our area might be different to a lot of the rest of the country wrt start time as when I was in school we started at 8.50 but seemingly not! Pretty much guarantee there will be pupil access to the school from at least 8am otherwise - definitely worth checking.

Your set up is completely normal where I live. DD2 was going to and from school with a friend the same age who lived in our road from end of year 5. She had to lock the house up when she left and then scoot to school (just over a mile away). On the way home she would go to my mums just round the corner and stay there til about 4 when she would then scoot home. We'd be back usually around 5pm.

She wanted to do this and really enjoyed being home on her own, had her phone, knew the neighbours etc.

When she started secondary school, she rode her bike for nearly 2 miles to and from school every day - we both left before she did and got back after she did. Again completely normal for where we live. She rode with a variety of friends who she meet up with on the way (we lived the furthest out). There is absolutely no buses were we are and the cycle ride was on a mixture of local roads but none particularly busy or with a speed limit over 30 (no dual carriageways etc).

I did the same when I was her age and survived with no ill effects.

She's now an adult and wasn't emotional scarred by any of the times she got to or from school on her own and she managed to do it from end of year 5 til she left 6th form.

Ive just asked her what she thinks of your situation and she cant believe so many people have commented saying how awful it is as she really enjoyed being home alone and was quite capable of managing getting herself to and from school. She said she would have hated being taken to senior school every day by one of us as pretty much all the kids got themselves there. I see hundreds of kids still wheeling their bikes into the school even now when I go past (over 2,000 in school).

As I say it is completely normal here - every morning I see lots of children from aged about 10 walking or riding to junior school & senior school. Sometimes on their won, sometimes with friends. It's not unusual at all.

We live in a large town on the south coast of about 80,000 people.

Just ask your husband what his concerns are as something must have happened for him to have done a complete 180 on this.

not working or flexi working isn’t an option for many parents so the options of giving a lift to a fully competent older child just isn’t on the table. I’d guess it’s far more likely in the general sense than the sort of people on just now too - as the people working shifts etc wouldn’t necessarily be able to chatting online during the day.

theres no option to drop off right at the school as it’s under construction. When I had an appointment and walked over at the start one day, I saw a handful of parents dropping off nearby so it’s not no one, but there are hundreds of kids walking or bussing up to the school so that’s definitely the majority.

private schools are different - I work near one and there’s a stream of fancy cars illegally parking every morning but many of them would live quite far away. Think the max anyone at our school would be maybe 2-3 miles (I’m in Scotland so it’s just catchment placements in almost ever situation, it’s not the kind of choice it sounds like there is in England)

I would say it depends where you live, is it safe? I was left alone for up to 3 hours aged 6 with my sister age 3 (terrible solution of course). Parents had no choice - or so they claim. From the age of 8 I walked to school alone with a house key. If I forgot to take it, I went to the neighbour or to my grandmother. Or to my parent's office (they all worked in the same town). 11 is perfectly fine to leave them alone/let them walk to school in safe neighbourhood.

I guess it depends on the location @Barrenfieldoffucks(great name btw!) but around here children getting lifts are definitely in the minority - I’d say 90% of them walk from Year 7 and probably 50% from year 5.

The only ones who do get lifts are those who live out of town or whose parents happen to be driving past anyway.

I find it utterly bonkers that an 11 year old will be walking alone 45 mins to school in the dark in winter. Even if she meets friends part of the way.

It's totally normal for secondary aged children to walk to/from school.

There are very few parts of the UK where she will be walking in the dark.
A 2 mile walk (or cycle as OP suggests) is normal for a large proportion of the secondary school population.
More bonkers that so many people feel that a child of this age can't walk 2 miles.

I find it utterly bonkers that parents still take their kids to and from secondary school and have jobs that allow that to happen. But everyone’s different I suppose

@Gymmum82 this thread got super sidelined by something that isn’t the point. Of course your children can and will get themselves to high school - they have to, so they will. People should stop trying to make you feel guilty about it.

Staying home alone regularly is a separate issue. Sounds like your high schooler will be alone for a little bit in the morning and a little bit in the evening by the time she adds in the time for her commute. That is totally reasonable if she is happy to do it.

But if your husband isn’t, even if this is something he is newly worried about it, and obviously assuming he isn’t regularly irrational or uninvolved, then you should talk to him
about it. The 3 of you can sit down together and figure out how you can all be comfortable as everyone there should have a say. I say this is the more anxious half of a set of parents - sometimes my instincts are wildly different to my husband’s so we just have to find a way through together.

But that's not his issue, his issue is her being left at home when they pop out to do the odd errand.

How do you cope with the anxiety of it though? I have the fear every time my ten year old goes out, that someone will harm her or she’ll get run over etc. How do you get on top of that? I wouldn’t even say I’m a particularly anxious person in general.