‘Sir’ and ‘Miss’ in schools is everyday sexism

[putyourshoesonnow]

To me the terms ‘Sir’ and ‘Miss’ are unequal because ‘Sir’ is a term of respect whilst ‘Miss’ has less gravitas as it has connotations of youth, juniority and marital status and can be seen as diminishing to adult women.

This has bugged me for a while, as I think it is exactly the wrong message that young people should be receiving in school.

A perfect alternative may not exist, but surely we can do better than this?

YABU - Sir and Miss are fine, no problem here
YANBU - Sir and Miss are too unequal and we should seek an alternative

I'm a secondary teacher and it doesn't bother me at all. I remember when I had my son, I was just being moved back to the post-labour ward when I heard "Hi Miss!" from a midwife 😂As long as our attitude/demeanour is respectful to each other then I'm fine with any term of address at a school.

It was Mr and Mrs/Miss Surname in primary - but secondary it was often same but Sir/Miss was sometime used.

I found it helpful as so many names could at start of year be confusing - possible related to my then undiagnosed dyslexia and memory issues. It was usually to attract attention for quick question when focus was on work rather than remember who was teaching.

I think it's similar in DC secondary - but at college it's first names which my teens did initally find jarring.

I image though teachers and schools affected can state their prefernces and gently remind students of them and could be quickly changed the habit and language used.

@Cucy a sense of humour goes a long way in teaching. As does a mutual rapport.

We have 2000 students and 87 teachers at our comp, plus we have staff leaving/joining etc. Even I don't know everyone's name and I've been there for years. Teachers tend to use Miss/Sir to refer to each other if we don't know the name and it's not an appropriate time to ask in front of the students.

The nice thing about Sir/Miss is it's a polite way for pupils to refer to all adults in the setting, known or not: teachers, TAs, caretakers and cleaners, lunchtime supervisors and cooks, visitors and volunteers.

Agreed, in my setting this is the expected for all staff.

It's historically sexist, but in modern times it's fine. Miss and sir in my opinion carry the same weight in a school nowadays.

It never meant anything to me growing up, outside of being a neutral word for a female teacher. I've worked as a TA, and from my experience, kids say 'miss' regardless of marital status.

Madam personally sounds worse to me, as it has connotations of bossy etc 'oh she's a right madam'!

You're wrong about how children think. A teacher I got on well with commented that I always called him Mr X rather than sir (he had a long name, so it was a mouthful, and he was gently teasing me). My response was that I didn't ever call anyone Sir. I was 11. I understood the connotations of Sir, and I knew Miss didn't have the same connotations. Children understand far more than you give them credit for.

I’m making the point about equivalents. As others have in fact said is the case at their schools, Madam/Ma’am is the equivalent of Sir, not Ms. As can clearly be seen in what you use to address the king and queen.
And of course Sir has more gravitas that Miss or Ms. That is clear, not sure why you’re denying it.

I’m a teacher and get called Miss, male teachers get called sir. Sometimes I’m called sir, or mum by mistake! It honestly doesn’t bother me at all, it’s just a ‘name’ for female teachers. Children aren’t trying to be insulting. I’ve never been called miss outside of a school context, I think all children seem to understand it is only in school. Funnily enough all my students go out of their way to make sure they write my full name correctly on their books (Mrs X).

I've been a teacher for decades, and agree with @softlyfallsthesnow

Teachers learn 30 names for each class, and pupils only need to remember one. IMO it is rude to do anything but learn their name.

I completely agree.

’Miss’ is a sign of respect.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with it and using a teachers first name or calling her madam etc isn’t going to reduce any disrespectful or sexist attitudes because those attitudes are completely unrelated to her title.

At my DC's state secondary it is Sir and Ma'am.

It's why I've always hated that men are 'Mr' and women's titles are entirely based on their marital status like they're still considered property of men, be it their husbands or fathers.

It's misogynistic and shit. And why I didn't change my name upon marriage and prefer Ms

Surly all pupils should know their teacher’s last names, so Mr X / Miss X / Mrs X. At least that is what they are at my DC’s school.

Teacher here, I don't like it and it is the culture in my current school. So I'm expected to call a 22yo NQT 'Sir' and he calls me 'Miss'.. I don't like it so I just call him Mr X and no one even notice except me, ha!
Principal will say 'Good morning Miss' and I just reply 'Good morning Mr Y'. My little private rebellion! I don't mind Ms Z, as I'd been in previous schools, but to be known only as 'Miss', I don't like and the word itself makes me think of a 12yo!

DD’s school it was sir and ma’am

In my kids school they say Sir and Miss. Don't think there's a lack of respect towards the female staff at all - it's a pretty strict school and they'd come down on any disrespectful behaviour like a ton of bricks!

Does everything have to have a ‘meaning’ behind it? 🥱 🥱 🙄

At my DS's school it is Sir or Ma'am.

As long as I’m not called “oi” or “bitch” I’m happy.

I answer to “miss” even though I’ve been teaching 25 years so I’m ancient. Pupils who know me are more likely to greet me by “Mrs …”.

DD calls her female teachers “madam”. DS is in primary so it’s always full names.

The production team tells them to call him Lord Sugar. Karen tells them to call her Baroness Brady! She's been shown correcting the contestants a few times now.

My gravitas in my classroom is not based on whether they call me miss, sir, Mrs Hamlet or mum

It’s really not something I could get my knickers in a twist about tbh. As long as parents bring up their children having respect then it’s just a title they are instructed to use.

I'm fascinated to hear how Ma'am is pronounced in different parts of the UK! Mam? Marm? I can just imagine how it would sound down here in SW England! 😆