‘Sir’ and ‘Miss’ in schools is everyday sexism

[putyourshoesonnow]

To me the terms ‘Sir’ and ‘Miss’ are unequal because ‘Sir’ is a term of respect whilst ‘Miss’ has less gravitas as it has connotations of youth, juniority and marital status and can be seen as diminishing to adult women.

This has bugged me for a while, as I think it is exactly the wrong message that young people should be receiving in school.

A perfect alternative may not exist, but surely we can do better than this?

YABU - Sir and Miss are fine, no problem here
YANBU - Sir and Miss are too unequal and we should seek an alternative

Obviously someone like you wouldn’t work in a school or prison and so you don’t have to worry about being called miss.

Well I am a ‘Miss’ so don’t see the issue here at all. I’d feel so uncomfortable being addressed as ‘Madam’ or ‘Ma’am’ 🤷‍♀️

My dc attended a school where first names were used for the teachers. There were no more issues with respect than in any other school. If anything, there was more respect shown to the teachers than in other local schools.

In primary it started with Múinteoir (teacher) First Name but the múinteoir was generally dropped within a year or so unless they were addressing a teacher they didn't know, in which case they would just call them Múinteoir.

Personally, I think the whole Ms/Mr used in many schools is outdated. If you don't like first names, what about Teacher? It's the equivalent of addressing lecturers as Professor. I work in a university and most of my international students address me as Professor even though I don't have an academic rank of professor. Internationally that would be common. Local students generally use my first name.

Absolutely this!! 🙌

It comes from the days of only unmarried women teaching and I agree it is sexist. If schools don't want to use Mr/Ms Surname then Sir/Ma'am as in the police/fire service/armed forces etc would be more equal.

Some people are offended by anything!

Not in my experience they don't (medics in the family and I encounter more through work). Any I've dealt with, or know, go by Ms. Although I recently encountered a Mrs. I'm in Ireland though and Miss is much less common here for anyone over the age of 18. The website on the local school has all the female teachers listed as Ms. Whatever Whatever, for example.

We definitely used Miss & Sir in a Scottish (rural, Higlands) high school, late ‘80s/early ‘90s.

I've taught in schools where all adults are addressed by first name and schools where it's been title + last name. I don't mind either of those but dislike being called 'Miss'. I explain to the children I teach that I go to the trouble of learning their names and would like them to learn mine in return, if they forget my name then I'll happily help them out but calling me Miss is equivalent to me using Boy or Girl in place of their name.

Which is your perception, but also untrue - the equivalent for a man of Ms is Mr, not Sir. Madam/Ma’am is the equivalent.
Pretty sure no one goes around calling the Queen ‘’Ms” when they call the King “Sir”.

She didn’t say she was offended, she asked if it was sexism. Which it is.

Yes, my DS's 6th form college it is first name terms but obviously they are older.

I don’t think the kids think that, and my very feminist DD had no issue with it. My son works in retail and says he gets look when he addresses a woman as ‘ma’am’. I suggested he used Miss no matter what their age and he says they respond much better to that!

It really doesn’t worry me.

Yes, I hate being called, Madam in shops, I'm mid 40s still get Miss as well though.

I’ve been a teacher for the last 10 years and trust me being called Miss in the classroom is the least of the problems in education currently…

Oh I am so with you on this! It drives me up the wall. All the female teachers - who I seem to have to address as Ms Smith when I email them - are called Miss to their face at DS’s secondary school. Never Miss Smith. Why not? And yes I agree about status for men and women.

At my school we had to use the full name - Mrs or Ms Smith.

look up Deborah Cameron about this - she’s a retired professor who writes about feminism and language. She has a good blog.

There is. It's Mistress! Miss is just the shorter, modern version. Not disrespectful at all.

You are being precious.
Yes, you are right in that when it comes to meeting the Royalty you can't use Ms. However, do you realise how much of a stretch that scenario is ? Do you honestly believe that using the term Sr has more gravitas because that is what you would use with the King ? I am sorry but is sounds over the top.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

More than one school near me uses Sir and Ma'am

Happier with that?

(Though you feel about ninety when you're ma'amed)

I hadn't thought about it but I agree OP.

At my school we never used Sir or Miss.. it was always Mrs X, Miss X, Mr X etc.

I would have thought the children could learn names? How many staff are in an average comp?

It's completely unequal. In my DS's (Comprehensive) school it's Sir and Ma'am which is better. However I think teachers should be called by their first names. That's what we did at school and there was no less respect for their authority - probably the opposite as there was generally a more respectful relationship between students, teachers and indeed parents (not in the UK obv).