‘Sir’ and ‘Miss’ in schools is everyday sexism

[putyourshoesonnow]

To me the terms ‘Sir’ and ‘Miss’ are unequal because ‘Sir’ is a term of respect whilst ‘Miss’ has less gravitas as it has connotations of youth, juniority and marital status and can be seen as diminishing to adult women.

This has bugged me for a while, as I think it is exactly the wrong message that young people should be receiving in school.

A perfect alternative may not exist, but surely we can do better than this?

YABU - Sir and Miss are fine, no problem here
YANBU - Sir and Miss are too unequal and we should seek an alternative

Yeah of course it's sexist. Just because 'that's the way it is' doesn't mean we don't live in a patriarchal society with misogyny baked right in! Like the fact that Mr exists and no single equivalent for an adult woman - we get defined by whether we're married or not as women. Historically women weren't actually allowed to teach after they married (marriage bar) so please don't think there's not a hugely problematic history behind it.

It was Sir and Miss at my kids' school but fortunately I've raised a raging little feminist who noticed this on her own at about age 8 and started calling them all Mr and Ms Surname.

It's Mam but with a slightly longer a sound!

What an exceptionally low bar for civility and respect.

It should be Sir or Ma’am, or Master and Miss(tress). I hate “Miss” myself.

I don't mind it when the children call me Miss if they aren't sure of my name but it sets my teeth on edge when one of the male members of staff calls me it because he can't be arsed to remember my name.

I'm a teacher. I would haaaate to be called ma'am or madam! I would also hate to be called by my first name so I'm perfectly happy with Miss or Miss PurpleDiva22

We had to stand up for a teacher's entrance - not bow/curtsey though - and this was in a rough 1980s comprehensive that made Grange Hill look like Malory Towers! It didn't have any positive effect on general discipline.

We use Miss/Mrs or Mr surname.

Sir is rarely used and when it is , it’s mostly by older staff and as a “shortcut”

“Sir, you need to fill in this form.” because it’s shorter/more expedient than “Mr. Smith , you need to fill in this form.” .

On the very rare occasion children use it , it’s in the same manner so it doesn’t actually feel that much more respectful to me.

I’m Miss Whenyousaynothingatall or Miss W. A couple of kids will call me Mrs because that’s what they call everyone and I don’t care enough to correct them . I also get called mum, nan and even dad once or twice.

Children are very clever and absorb everything. They know Sir has more gravitas by teenage years.

Is it fuck. Stop finding things to be offended about.

I agree with the origins of the word, but miss is used respectfully by the kids as much as sir, it would just be a faff to change it all x

Quite.

This question keeps popping up on Mumsnet. Sir snd Miss are fine, the children don't even think about it.

It is Mr X or Ms X. No Sir.

I went to a grammar school and we also called teachers Mr, Mrs or Miss Surname so I do find the Sir and Miss thing pretty weird.

All that tell us is how insidious this kind of everyday sexism is. Children learn from a very young age that women are lesser. They learn that inequality between the sexes is the norm. They don’t even realise it’s happening.

I find it slightly astonishing that so many women teachers don’t have a problem with this when it’s all part and parcel of teaching not being as respected a profession as it should be. No one calls a lawyer or a doctor or an architect “miss”. But if women within a profession don’t seem to care, what can anyone else do?

My now retired teacher mother used to hate being called 'Miss' and would tell the offender 'I haven't put up with my husband for 40 years to be called Miss, Mrs X please'

I don't see it as lesser so why should they. I was always given to understand that Miss is short for Mistress and to be Mistress of ..(ie a job not a relationship to a man) was a respectable title.

To me the terms ‘Sir’ and ‘Miss’ are unequal because ‘Sir’ is a term of respect whilst ‘Miss’ has less gravitas as it has connotations of youth, juniority and marital status and can be seen as diminishing to adult women

The name doesn’t equal respect - Sir doesn’t command respect - how you approach children and expect respect makes the difference.

Some teachers only have to raise an eyebrow- others could rant all day and not have respect.

What’s prompted this crap?

I’m Scottish and we just called our teachers by their named, e.g Mrs/Miss Smith or Mr Smith.

Saying Sir or Miss sounds odd to me.

Maybe but in the corridor staff address each other as Miss and Sir. I’m a teacher (female) and hate calling the men Sir . It’s degrading being called Miss !

For children that have grown up calling teachers Sir and Miss there is no difference. You perceive a status difference, they do not.

Unreasonable, no. Ridiculous, yes,

Mistress (which is centuries old) became Mrs. Miss is the diminutive used for a juvenile girl or unmarried woman.

Ms was invented in the 1970s to address the inequality between all adult men being Mr but women being split between Miss and Mrs, and looking at other languages which moved all adult women into, for example, Madame or Senora regardless of marital status.

Just because children don’t perceive something doesn’t make that thing right. I don’t expect children to do the hard thinking around this but it’s a shame so many adults either can’t or won’t.

I preferred Miss TwoSheds, I was resigned to Miss.
Sometimes, when they were not thinking, I got Mum or Mummy, occasionally an incomprehensible foray into another language spoken at home.
But I did get miffed with the occasional Grandma.