‘Sir’ and ‘Miss’ in schools is everyday sexism

[putyourshoesonnow]

To me the terms ‘Sir’ and ‘Miss’ are unequal because ‘Sir’ is a term of respect whilst ‘Miss’ has less gravitas as it has connotations of youth, juniority and marital status and can be seen as diminishing to adult women.

This has bugged me for a while, as I think it is exactly the wrong message that young people should be receiving in school.

A perfect alternative may not exist, but surely we can do better than this?

YABU - Sir and Miss are fine, no problem here
YANBU - Sir and Miss are too unequal and we should seek an alternative

I think pupils at some schools address women teachers as " Madam". I don't know if this is a regional thing.

It was Sir and Madam at my school - bog standard state comp.

They certainly did that at a school I worked in near London. ‘She’s alright, that Madam’ was said about me by one lad.

My son's (state) school asks the pupils to address the teachers by Sir and Ma'am.

It is unequal but I’d like to hear what teachers think because they are the ones being called Sir or Miss.

I went to private school and we used Mr X /Miss Y/Ms Z

There used to be an advert, many decades ago, that concluded with the line, spoken by a little girl'when I grow up, mummy says I'm going to be a proper little madam'
So, madam no better than miss in terms of connotation, altho madam also associated with brothels...
Ma'am perhaps? 😃

Miss and sir are not equal. But I also think we should give up on the titles.

Oh don't be so silly.

Children don't think like that. They do not have the built-in adult connotation of 'Sir' being any more prestigious than 'Miss'. Why would they?

Not sure of the alternative, but it should not be calling teachers by their first names.

We had the same. Also standing up when teacher/ other adult entered the room

Better than Sir and Love which is what you'll get called in some environments.

You're being daft. I worked in a school (not as a teacher) and I loved being addressed as Miss. Both terms are a bit old-fashioned but the kids don't know that one has less status. I hate being called Madam or Ma'am - that's just for phone scammers.

Tbh I think that there should be a female equivalent of Master for boys and Mister for men.

Yet another reason why it's a shame there isn't the sort of title in English that exists in other languages (e.g., mademoiselle / madame, signorina / signora) that is based on age / seniority rather than marital status.

I don't think that's quite right... I was married at 18 and when in France I was addressed as Madame, not Mam'selle.

I live in the NE of England - we call our mothers 'mam', so calling the female teachers 'ma'am' would be very confusing!

But yes, I agree - we used to call our teachers Miss X, Mrs Y or Mr Z in our state school, much better than Miss or Sir.

Used to say Mr Jones or Mrs/Miss Smith etc when I was in first school.
I always admired this one older teacher who replied when asked by a child whether she should be addressed as, "Miss" or "Mrs <Turnbull>?", that "Ms" was the only appropriate title, and just to call her that alone!
In high school we had to say, "Sir", and "Miss." My dcs say Mrs/Miss/Mr with the surname.

No, surgeons and unmarried women of any age or occupation use Miss as their title. It carries plenty of gravitas to me. I don't see why we have to mess about with women's titles and diminished them rather than let society reach parity.

We had some bloody formidable and talented teachers at school whom we called 'Miss'. Women teaching has a long and proud history. Why does such a well known title need to be interfered with? Miss and Sir are equals. Just because the title is a bit more versatile than Sir in terms of age, social standing and marital status (and isn't borne by a Knight), it doesn't take away the meaning it holds in this context. Leave Miss alone!

Historically married women had to leave teaching, so female teachers were always Miss. I dislike Miss anyway. At my previous job teachers were Sir and Madam. Took a while to get used to it, but I did prefer it to Miss.

I've worked with teachers who flatly refused to be called 'Miss' and insisted the children call them Miss/Mrs + Surname. I've never come across a man who refused to be called Sir.

Personally, I've never cared enough to be bothered by it - children could call me Mrs 'Shetlands' or Miss.

i'd rather be addressed by Miss rather than Madam or Ma'am all day long!

At 18, when you are an adult, is when they switch to Madame.

Wherever I have taught - comprehensive, FE, independent schools - I say to call me Ma’am or Mrs March. Nobody has ever called me Ma’am after the first day.

In this area teachers are addressed by their name - Mrs White etc.

Ha, I thought this when I was at school and refused to call any male teacher "Sir". That's the actual outdated term because of the deferential class connotations.

Just call them Mr X, Mrs X, Miss X or Ms X depending on preference.