Aibu No security at Daughters dance class

[loveyoutothestars]

My 8year old daughter has been attending the same dance class since she was 5. The teacher is lovely, but she is the only adult in the room (she does have a teenage helper). Since the tragic events at a holiday club in summer last year, I have been growing more anxious at the lack of security at the dance class.

The class is held in a local village club, where there are a few small social rooms and a bar. It is very open and people come and go quite easily. The children enter through an unlocked door and exit through the fire exit, although with the warmer weather returning I noticed she has taken to propping the fire exit door open throughout the class which makes me very uneasy.

Parents drop off and pick up for the session, although occasionally I will hang around outside because of my nervousness.

I don’t know how to approach the teacher with my concerns as don’t want to be seen as an overly anxious mother, but events in the news terrify me and it feels like she hasn’t considered how vulnerable the class could be. It is worth mentioning that 5 mins away there is a Psychiatric hospital and we often see patients out and about in the community, although not always appearing well. Although I’m not suggesting this is my only concern, I do worry how open and vulnerable the class appears.

AIBU to raise this concern with the teacher? There isn’t usually time for any interaction between classes so communication is via email.

Appreciate your thoughts on how to approach, but please be kind this is my first post.

I think it was to put your assumptions about 'safe' and 'not safe' into context.

I think we need to take stock of the fact that things like the Stockport event make the news in such a big way because they are so so very rare.

Gently, I think this is your anxiety over-ruling sensible risk assessment. 'Probability' is one half of the risk assessment score and given there must be hundreds of thousands of these classes a week across the country and these incidents of mass murder in the UK are probably single figures. If you drive her there she is almost certainly more at risk of death on the roads, given on average 5 people die each and every day.

Obviously if you don't like that dance class having the fire exit open, then join one that doesn't, but I certainly don't think it's any more risk than any outdoor sport/club where there are no doors at all.

But it is though. The poster is highlighting that horrible things can happen all the time and there is no way to cover all eventualities

The locked doors would be more a concern to me than it being a comfort

It's not reasonable to expect your child to have security everywhere. The Southport incident was a dance class, but it could have been anywhere. A toy shop, a craft activity table in a mall, a Build-a-Bear workshop, outside a school at pick-up time, literally anywhere where children are.

Do you really think the Southport killer would have shrugged and walked off had the door been locked, and that he couldn't easily have smashed a window or kicked down a fire escape? Or simply waited outside until the children left the building or someone opened the door to leave?

But is that responding to a genuine risk? People mainly aren't going out on murdering sprees, and we can't constrict our lives as if they are. The solution to this isn't to lock the world out, devastating though the events you've described are.

What do you feel would be proportionate and would you (and all the other parents) be prepared to pay for what that costs?

we have to accept some level of risk. What happened in Southport was beyond horrific but the likely of it happening again is very small. That’s what assessing risk is about - likelihood v outcome and putting in proportionate control measures . Locking a door would feel like increasing risk - should they need to evacuate or emergency services are called for example.

Driving a car, crossing a road, hoovering the stairs etc all have risks many are completely beyond our control but we still do them.

What would you propose for outdoor clubs?

It is utterly terrifying to think about what could happen to DD.

But I can keep.it in perspective, and allow her to live her life.

I mean this kindly, I think you need some help with your anxiety.

The incident in Southport was horrific but thankfully hugely rare. Your child is more at risk from the teacher or helper (especially if parents can't stay).

Life is full of risks, I personally wouldn't worry, it is highly unlikely an intruder will attack your daughter. The car journey to and from class is probably more dangerous.

It is relevant as she is highlighting your irrationality.

Kids classes cannot afford to hire security. If you're that worried, stay and watch.

In reality though, what would you be able to do if a madman walked in swinging a knife? Very little, I'd argue - as most of us wouldn't.

People with frightening mental health issues walk among us every day. It's a bit of a 'There but for the grace of God go I' situation. There is no way to pre-empt it. One of the scariest things about these kinds of tragic events is often the sheer randomness of them.

Kids parks don't have security. School playgrounds and playing fields don't have security. Soft Play centres don't have security. A little barrier that checks people in and out is easily jumped over. A door with a buzzer to be allowed in and out can be easily breached when people enter/exit.

The World i absolutely full of risk, OP. We have to do our best and crack on with life. We cannot make demands on small businesses to put in expensive security measures that will likely never need to be used.

Agree

take the horrific Ariana Geande concert bombing that occurred - that cannot stop us letting our children go to concerts

we can’t stop using the roads etc either.

The root of this is I think the firedoor being left open to air the room (which is the difference between dance and brownies). I don’t think at firedoor or a locked door is going to be the difference between these things happening and not

My immediate response was to think you were being unreasonable, but on reflection, I remember when my two were doing ballet at the community centre, and keypads were put on all the doors, that during the class in the hall, the room was fully secure, and the teacher's TA (over 18) escorted them to the loo. It was just seen as reasonable safeguarding.

I think the teacher was worried about a sea of parents just walking into the hall when the class finished, and losing track of which child was actually leaving with which adult.

So I don't actually think you are being unreasonable.

Thanks all for your views. I take on board that I am very outnumbered in my concerns and need to keep in perspective the probability of anything happening.

I do appreciate everyone’s views which is why I have asked to gauge if this is me over worrying before I offend the teacher by approaching her.

I recognise we take risks every day, however I do think we should learn lessons and for example we never used to have gates etc in schools until after the tragic Dunblane incident, but lessons were learnt even if we can’t mitigate all risk.

thanks again and I will consider every opinion.

DD's ballet class was exactly the same - one adult teacher, one teenage (under 18) helper, parents not allowed to stay and watch, and no locked doors. I think it's a normal and acceptable level of safety, for what is a tiny tiny risk.

And what about outdoor classes like forest school, sports clubs, outdoor holiday sessions? I don't think it's realistic for children always to be locked away.

It’s both helpful and relevant. Vehicles of all shapes and sizes are driving past schools up and down the country every day of the week. While many schools do have fencing or walls that would catch most runaway vehicles, the Wimbledon tragedy was such a fluke that no one gives the issue much thought. By comparison, a random attack such as Southport is vanishingly unlikely.

How on earth do you expect for her to afford it? Are you going to pay for it yourself? I’m sure she barely makes any money, do you really think 20 people paying probably about £5 each is going to cover private security costs as well as the costs she already has hiring the room she uses?

There was a case years ago in my city of deaths at a nursery. It was a parent of a child there, and as a parent they knew the security code for the door to drop/collect children. From memory they had some psychotic break, went there, let themselves in, then started on with kids and staff with a knife. This sort of thing can happen in any environment. What if the dance teacher goes loco? Doubt the 18yo assistant will be much good, so you probably don’t want a locked door to stop others entering in a timely manner to assist.

You can ‘what if’ to the cows come home. But, I think you need to accept that things like this are extremely rare events and we can’t all live our lives barricaded against them, that’s not really healthy.

Unfortunately a number of recent mass fatality incidents have been people driving into crowds. Someone could easily drive through parents and children arriving or leaving. Or attack a group doing an activity in the park. Im not sure what the answer is but I'm sure it's not living our life constantly in fear.

I’m saying over reaction.
But that’s because my own dcs do tennis. It’s fully open, as you’d expect. Nothing to stop children to leave, an adult no one knows to come. Parents aren’t staying either.

🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

At the very least, you could point out that a fire door which is propped open is totally ineffective for its intended purpose.

You have to keep things in perspective. How many classes happen across the country every single day? Thousands and thousands. How many incidents have happened? Your child is more like to be hurt in a car accident or indeed any type of accident than they are at dance class.

The door is locked after registration and the fire exit is kept closed.
Fire is a much bigger risk, and locking all doors would be a disaster in this situation.

Why would you expect security? This is exactly what how's on in almost every village hall around the country

You are over anxious

Thank you I really appreciate this. I feel you understand what I mean about the general safeguarding issue, not necessarily that I’m an ‘overly anxious mother’ which is a bit of an easy swipe! We attend other classes such as gymnastics and the safeguarding is much more thorough, of course those classes come with their own risks and I’m not trying to keep my daughter in cotton wool - just recognise that there are some risks we can mitigate slightly even if just for peace of mind.