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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Grandfather behaviour to granddaughter

233 replies

Stripesarethethingforme · 24/03/2025 01:53

My Dad's behaviour towards my eldest daughter has started to worry me and I need some advice as I don't really have anyone I can talk to about this other than my husband who is also concerned.

My Dad asks my daughter to sit on his lap a lot - he wanted her to sit on his lap for over an hour this afternoon. Kept pulling her back in if she got off and asking her to hug him. He focuses all his attention on her and ignores his other grandchildren when she's there. He asks her to hug him a lot- for example this afternoon after having her sit in his lap for a really long time he was still asking her to come and hug him. She's six years old. It makes me deeply uncomfortable.

I found him giving her a foot massage after dinner this evening and saying how nice it was to be stroked. I'm really not happy about this but I'm not sure whether I'm projecting something that isn't there as I have a difficult relationship with my Dad. I've never liked him hugging me although I can't say exactly why, I just don't like it.

What would you do? Should I be concerned?

OP posts:
ThePoshUns · 24/03/2025 15:04

binkie163 · 24/03/2025 14:01

My friends husband is the same with the neighbours child (10 years old) as others have said 'in plain sight' she often only has shorts and vest on, he strokes her arms and legs 🤢 tells her to cuddle him, always on his lap, kiss him, nuzzle her face into his beard 🤮...of course they just say he wants affection but he acts like a lovesick man. He wears one of her plastic rings as if they are married. The parents don't think it's wrong. I have said I think it's disgusting but they say it's innocent, of course it bloody isn't. I no longer speak to them because he is also a coercive, bullying twat.

Omg this is awful. I hope someone steps in to safeguard this girl.

Laura36TTC · 24/03/2025 15:35

As a Mum to a little girl, this thread has made me feel sick.

Do not let your daughter be alone with this man!

PollyHutchen · 24/03/2025 15:40

Not sure I 100% agree with @Garliccheeseandabagel

I'd say abusers go for the easy targets. The children whose parents are gullible have been successfully groomed. The children whose parents neglect them. The unloved kids who are desperate for affection.

I think saying either verbally or through actions - 'I do not trust you around my child. You do not have unsupervised contact with her. If you attempt to touch her in my presence, my child and/or I will put or stop to that,' - is a deterrent.

The problem with the 'All or nothing' approach is we can't always be clear who the abusers are. So those who are - for want of a better description - tactile people, may be treated as if they are dangerous abusers. While those who are pretty good at playing the long game, may slip under the radar.

I don't think there is an easy answer beyond talking to children about the fact they can and should say 'No' to unwanted touching, and that they should not trust adults who try and persuade them into keeping things secret from their parents.

category12 · 24/03/2025 15:48

The problem with not ending contact is that it means the person is likely to be seen as "safe" by the child.

So when a bit older, if they're walking home from school one day and Grandpa (or Uncle John or friend of the family Keith) stops and offers them a lift, they'd just accept, why wouldn't they?

You can't always be there to supervise.

PollyHutchen · 24/03/2025 16:10

Equally you end contact. And then Grandpa shows up after a long absence. And the child thinks, 'Oh I haven't seen Grandpa for so long and now he's saying he missed me, plus it's raining and offering me a lift, so this is a bit of a non-brainer and I'll get in the car.'

Or you prevent this scenario by saying to an eight-year old, 'I believe Grandpa to be a dangerous grooming child sex abuser who you are never to see again.' Thus scaring the child witless.

Not brilliant choices either way.

I think often the truth is somewhere in the middle. There are sleazy opportunistic family friends and relatives and we have to work out appropriate strategies.

Fingeronthebutton · 24/03/2025 16:21

JANEY205 · 24/03/2025 03:34

Why the fuck are you enabling this? I wouldn’t have my children being made to sit with anyone. An hour is absurd! This is disgusting and you and your husband are being feeble. Protect your damn child! Even you feel creeped out by him imagine how your poor child feels! Ffs.

At last. Someone getting fucking angry.
OP. Why aren’t you. 😡

Missj25 · 24/03/2025 16:28

YourWildAmberSloth · 24/03/2025 13:02

Yes you should be concerned. Keep your daughter away from him and any other children as well. Share your concerns with siblings, because if he can't get to your daughter he will likely target another. And tell your father and mother why, his behaviour is totally inappropriate and disgusting.

Edited

Exactly this ..

Whatevershallidowithmylife · 24/03/2025 17:10

For posters saying she's too old, I was still sitting on my grampa's knee as a teenager - obviously just for a short time! However in connection with OP's post I would be raising this issue with my Dad and taking it from there. It doesn't sound normal at all.

Oncewornballgown · 24/03/2025 17:11

There aren’t any easy options because perpetrators of sexual abuse have themselves created an impossible situation for everyone. Impossible in that it cannot be the safe and happy environment that a child requires, deserves and is legally entitled to. They have broken the family and all pretences of otherwise is futile and potentially dangerous for children.

I have known families who absolutely do not want to lose “the family” because of the discovery of an abuser in their midst. This is one reason why Social Services need to be involved. Many people cannot be relied upon to put the safety of children above their own relationships. Very often for complex reasons rather than wilful neglect. Victims of sexual abuse, or those who speak out, are often themselves scapegoated and excluded. These aren’t healthy families and staying in contact is not likely to provide a rewarding experience, although many still do take this option.
A lot of child sexual abuse is opportunistic and happens with the children the perpetrators have most opportunity to have access to. Not necessarily only the unloved children or those with neglectful parents at all, although they are particularly vulnerable. We have to acknowledge that this can happen to absolutely any child because all that is required is for a friend, or family member, with this compulsion, to have access to a child.

It is unfortunately necessary to tell children that some people are not safe to be around or be permitted to touch them. You can always tell people generally that you don’t permit hugging, kissing, stroking and sitting on laps except from specific persons. It is much easier to have rules like this than to have to confront someone about their behaviour. Anyone who has a problem with it is not having the child’s best interests at heart.

DurhamDurham · 24/03/2025 17:20

You need to speak up for your daughter. When she's moving away and trying to get down, he's pulling her back. This is totally inappropriate and unacceptable, she needs an adult to speak up and help her remove herself from the situation if she's uncomfortable. She needs a voice.

PollyHutchen · 24/03/2025 17:29

I think we are actually very unclear where the lines are to be drawn - and they shift about from generation to generation.

For some families a kiss on the lips is fine. The age at which sitting on an adult male relatives knee is seen as fine varies. There are different views about when bathroom doors are shut, and about what the situations in which child and adult nudity are appropriate.

And for every child abuser who is the obvious outsider, there is also the one who is a pretty ordinary guy. Married. A decent job. Gives good parties. Tells funny stories.

I am the child of someone who - very sadly - had an inappropriate interest in young female children. He was also a talented man, gifted teacher, a good musician, the man who my mother loved. Half of my genes are from him.

But I feel sorrow as well as anger. The kind of sorrow you might feel when someone has a contagious illness which is harmful to them, as well as to those who are around them.

readingismycardio · 24/03/2025 17:36

Trust your instincts. You’d rather want to be wrong and offend him rather than be right and do nothing.

Maddy70 · 24/03/2025 18:15

You need to call him out on this. Say why do you need her to sit on your knee... It's weird.

Every single time

BellissimoGecko · 24/03/2025 18:36

Loads of red flags.

Teach your dd that she doesn’t owe anyone affection, and she has autonomy over her own body.

I’d tell your dad to stop giving her foot rubs - that’s just weird. And I’d only encourage a quick hug on arrival and departure - if your dd wants to.

you and your h need to be on the same page here.

is your mum around? What does she think?

arcticpandas · 24/03/2025 18:42

PollyHutchen · Today 17:29

"I think we are actually very unclear where the lines are to be drawn - and they shift about from generation to generation.

For some families a kiss on the lips is fine. The age at which sitting on an adult male relatives knee is seen as fine varies."

But in this case it was clear that the gf FORCED his gd to sit on his lap for an hour. Even if people are comfortable with different types of intimacy in a family I think we can all agree on that a child should never be forced to hug/sit in lap/ having physical contact. It's the first step of dissociation where the child feels that their body doesn't belong to them. It's really harmful.

Personally I wouldn't kiss my sons on the lips (when they were babies I did). I remember how I had a friend (we were 10) who always kissed her dad on the lips and I thought maybe that meant they loved each other more. So I tried to kiss my dad on the lips but he pulled me away saying "that's for your boyfriend when you get older" and gave me a hug instead. Very greatful he acted like that because children are so innocent and it's so easy to abuse them in different ways. We owe it to them to ALWAYS speak up on their behalf no matter what.

GreyAreas · 24/03/2025 18:55

You and your partner need to be confident in your next actions to safeguard your daughter. He might be powerful and hard to challenge but you are right.
I personally would be taking a step back and not seeing him at all.
Make a simple statement 'I observed your behaviour towards my daughter to be highly inappropriate and I do not permit you to have any contact with our children again.' If you would like me to spell out what was inappropriate then I am happy to share the list of what I observed with you and with everyone in the family. You do not get to control or abuse my children.

orangemapleleaves · 24/03/2025 22:30

Everything garliccheeseandbagel has said.

orangemapleleaves · 24/03/2025 22:43

There aren’t any easy options because perpetrators of sexual abuse have themselves created an impossible situation for everyone.

Oh thank you for saying this!

It's such a difficult situation, particularly if it's a family member. OP will not necessarily be believed, and then she'll lose the whole family.

What she can do is teach her daughter all of the things that prevent sexual abuse, and set boundaries with her father - pull him up, ever time. Remove opportunities for access. Distancing, not letting them ever be alone together, watching him like a hawk, teaching her to speak up and back her up when she does.

The GF will show his true colours when he feels his behavariour is being challenged and that will be a whole new situation, but at least the child is safe.

TillyannaB · 24/03/2025 22:46

Have the kids ever stayed there day or night without you?

What access does he have to other kids?

Alarm bells are ringing for me and my dd wouldn’t be in the same room as him again.

ShiiiiiiiiiitDinosaur · 24/03/2025 22:51

I never liked kissing, hugging and sitting on peoples laps as a kid. I refused. My GP’s didn’t like me because of it but even now I am not a hugger.

Honestly, reading your OP made me cringe.

I would teach my DD to tell anyone NO!

Alwaysalert · 24/03/2025 23:32

ORIGINAL POST

binkie163 - Today 14:01

My friends husband is the same with the neighbours child (10 years old) as others have said 'in plain sight' she often only has shorts and vest on, he strokes her arms and legs 🤢 tells her to cuddle him, always on his lap, kiss him, nuzzle her face into his beard 🤮...of course they just say he wants affection but he acts like a lovesick man. He wears one of her plastic rings as if they are married. The parents don't think it's wrong. I have said I think it's disgusting but they say it's innocent, of course it bloody isn't. I no longer speak to them because he is also a coercive, bullying twat.

Above is the message I am responding to as Alwaysalert - I tried to copy it over as a quote as I have done before on posts, but could not do it and I'm explaining in event you cannot understand who OP was. Sorry if it doesn't make sense but I am so mad and I just want to get it posted. I wanted to comment on it earlier but had somewhere I had to be, and I'm so shocked that there was only 1 other poster that reacted to it - (ThePoshUns · Today 15:04)

I find it absolutely disgraceful, All the people concerned should be at the Police Station, now - OP's friend's husband - being questioned by the Child Protection Team, his wife (OP's friend) for not reporting him - she could have done so anonymously if she is scared of him, the neighbors whose child it is need interviewing by Child Services with a view to having the child removed into Foster Care asap and if the OP thinks it's disgusting enough to post on here, she must believe it is abuse so should be writing a witness statement.

Post states "they say he wants affection but he acts like a lovesick man" Who is they???? He is sick but not lovesick just fucking sick !!!!!!

I felt physically ill reading this. That poor child. OP (binkie163) needs to report him and get that child to safety and protected from this abuse.
___

abs12 · 24/03/2025 23:36

Has anyone else in the family noticed this? Is your mum around? Can you raise it with your siblings?

It is of concern of course, because you have seen enough to be concerned. Don't doubt your instincts because they always work to protect yourself and your child. You are her protector and advocate. As a PP mentioned, start talking to DD about boundaries, her body, good touch and bad. Ask her how she feels.... Then talk to your dad. Lay down the rules. You do not have to explain yourself, just tell him the rules. Your rules. Then limit contact if you are okay to do so, and then when only many people are present, never ever alone, and always with at least you or your DH.

Do not put anyone in a position where lives could be destroyed, including nieces and nephews.

I hope for your mental health and that of your daughter that this is nothing but genuine love. But either way, you will never find out if there was anything else untoward because you have the power to stop it, now.

❤️

Feministwoman · 25/03/2025 00:43

Copied from Facebook , can't attribute, wish I could.

A grown man looms behind my three-year-old daughter. Occasionally he will poke or tickle her and she responds by shrinking. Smaller and smaller with each unwanted advance. I imagine her trying to become slight enough to slip out of her booster seat and slide under the table.

When my mother views this scene, she sees playful taunting. A grandfather engaging with his granddaughter.

“Mae.” My tone cuts through the din of a familiar family gathering together. She does not look at me.

“Mae.” I start again. “You can tell him no Mae. If this isn’t okay you could say something like, Papa, please back up—I would like some space for my body.”

As I say the words, my step-father, the bulldog, leans in a little closer, hovering just above her head. His tenebrous grin taunts me as my daughter accordions her 30-pound frame hoping to escape his tickles and hot breath.

I repeat myself with a little more force. She finally peeks up at me.

“Mama . . . can you say it?”

Surprise. A three-year-old-girl doesn’t feel comfortable defending herself against a grown man. A man that has stated he loves and cares for her over and over again, and yet, stands here showing zero concern for her wishes about her own body. I ready myself for battle.

“Papa! Please back up! Mae would like some space for her body.”

My voice is firm but cheerful. He does not move.

“Papa. I should not have to ask you twice. Please back up. Mae is uncomfortable.”

“Oh, relax,” he says, ruffling her wispy blonde hair.
The patriarchy stands, patronizing me in my own damn kitchen. “We’re just playin’.” His southern drawl does not charm me.

“No. You were playing. She was not. She’s made it clear that she would like some space, now please back up.”

“I can play how I want with her.” He says, straightening his posture.

My chest tightens. The sun-bleached hairs on my arms stand at attention as this man, who has been my father figure for more than three decades, enters the battle ring.

“No. No, you cannot play however you want with her. It’s not okay to ‘have fun’ with someone who does not want to play.”

He opens his mouth to respond but my rage is palpable through my measured response. I wonder if my daughter can feel it. I hope she can.

He retreats to the living room and my daughter stares up at me. Her eyes, a starburst of blue and hazel, shine with admiration for her mama. The dragon has been slayed (for now). My own mother is silent. She refuses to make eye contact with me.

This is the same woman who shut me down when I told her about a sexual assault I had recently come to acknowledge.

This is the same woman who was abducted by a carful of strangers as she walked home one night. She fought and screamed until they kicked her out. Speeding away, they ran over her ankle and left her with a lifetime of physical and emotional pain.

This is the same woman who said nothing, who could say nothing as her boss and his friends sexually harassed her for years.

This is the same woman who married one of those friends.

When my mother views this scene, she sees her daughter overreacting. She sees me ‘making a big deal out of nothing.’ Her concerns lie more in maintaining the status quo and cradling my step-dad’s toxic ego than in protecting the shrinking three-year-old in front of her.

When I view this scene, I am both bolstered and dismayed. My own strength and refusal to keep quiet is the result of hundreds, probably thousands of years of women being mistreated, and their protests ignored. It is the result of watching my own mother suffer quietly at the hands of too many men. It is the result of my own mistreatment and my solemn vow to be part of ending this cycle.

It would be so easy to see a little girl being taught that her wishes don’t matter. That her body is not her own. That even people she loves will mistreat and ignore her. And that all of this is “okay” in the name of other people, men, having fun.

But. What I see instead is a little girl watching her mama. I see a little girl learning that her voice matters. That her wishes matter. I see a little girl learning that she is allowed and expected to say no. I see her learning that this is not okay.

I hope my mom is learning something, too.

Fighting the patriarchy one grandpa at a time.

        By Lisa Norgren 
        Photo: TheGuardian

Be this Mum, OP.

Mumof3confused · 25/03/2025 00:51

Trust your gut - it’s all you have, mama. You already know you dislike it (probably for a reason) but you let your daughter into the lions den.

In that situation I would have called her away and made up and excuse like ‘come and help me with this thing’ or ‘we need to pop out and get some milk’ and remove her from the situation completely. The massaging her feet sounds incredibly creepy.

I would absolutely limit his opportunity to get anywhere near her by simply not visiting anymore.

It sounds like neither of you steps in - why is that?

Stripesarethethingforme · 25/03/2025 06:08

Thank you for all your replies. To answer a few questions, my father isn't a very nice man - lots of insults handed out, his way or the highway, always right etc etc. My Mum at best is a victim of years of emotional abuse, at worst a willing enabler of his behaviour towards all of us. I hope it's the former. We don't see a lot of them as it is because of this and this makes me extremely sad as I don't get to see my Mum. She lives too far away for a quick meet up. It's hard living with the grief of not having the parents you would like to have.

However, my children need to be protected from my Dad. My husband and I agreed we won't be staying there overnight again and there's going to be some new houses rules - no sitting on anyone's lap, one hug at the door if my kids want to and no one needs foot massages. I've already spoken to my Mum about it and I'm going to be telling my Dad this at the front door next they come over which won't be for a while. One of us is going to have eyes on my Dad at all times because you're all right there is something really not right here and we need to stop it before anything worse happens. I don't want to have to not see my Mum and I hope it doesn't come to that.

OP posts: