Grandfather behaviour to granddaughter

[Stripesarethethingforme]

My Dad's behaviour towards my eldest daughter has started to worry me and I need some advice as I don't really have anyone I can talk to about this other than my husband who is also concerned.

My Dad asks my daughter to sit on his lap a lot - he wanted her to sit on his lap for over an hour this afternoon. Kept pulling her back in if she got off and asking her to hug him. He focuses all his attention on her and ignores his other grandchildren when she's there. He asks her to hug him a lot- for example this afternoon after having her sit in his lap for a really long time he was still asking her to come and hug him. She's six years old. It makes me deeply uncomfortable.

I found him giving her a foot massage after dinner this evening and saying how nice it was to be stroked. I'm really not happy about this but I'm not sure whether I'm projecting something that isn't there as I have a difficult relationship with my Dad. I've never liked him hugging me although I can't say exactly why, I just don't like it.

What would you do? Should I be concerned?

Answer for your daughter.
No, Dad she has had enough. Five minutes is enough for a hug. Sit beside her and read to her. She likes stories and that is really good for her learning to read.
Insist that he hear her.
No, DD says she has had enough cuddles.
If you can't listen to her, you can't visit, sorry.
Empower your daughter, ALWAYS be there to assess the situation and voice strongly in support of your DD.
Be prepared to ask your father to leave the room, not visit etc etc.

Just stressing, the attitude of “keep an eye on it” is not really appropriate IMO. You can encourage your DD to say no all you like, but the way he is leering towards her is unacceptable. Either remove her from this situation or confront the man directly about this.

Why is anyone insisting a 6 year old sit on their lap for an hour? This is fucking disturbing. Do not put your child in harms way “with a watchful eye” - do not give creepy men the opportunity to put their hands anywhere near her.

You sound like a brilliant mum,

I'm sorry, but she doesn't. How can anyone allow a child to be made to sit on a grandparents knee for AN HOUR? And allow the child to be restrained when she tried to get up? There's nothing remotely good, never mind brilliant, about that.

SA aside, who would want to sit on someone's lap for an hour? No adult would, never mind a six year old.

I had an uncle who was always very affectionate and cuddly with me. Didn't keep me on his knee or anything but favored me. I was the only girl and a few years younger than my sibling and cousins. He had known me since I was a baby where as the others were older when he married into our family so i guess i was his only true niece on our side and that's why we all felt he was more affectionate with me. I used to go and sit with him on the sofa in the end, conditioned to I supposed and no one suspected anything as we were in a room fill of adults, he was never on his own when he did this and my parents never left me on my own with him so it was just considered affectionate. It was by me too. I genuinely liked him and didnt feel uncomfortable. Until the day, age 8, that we were all called into the dining room for sunday dinner and he kept me on his knee that few seconds longer so we were the last ones left in the lounge, 30 seconds max. I learnt never to go near him again after he inappropriately touched me over my clothes. I told him off and said I didn't like him doing that, I was raised to have my own mind and not simply comply by my amazing parents. He never tried anything else as I guess he realised I was not the right child for his abuse. I never told anyone. As an 8 year old with no sexual thoughts I didn't recognise it as abuse, just teasing. I was about 14 when I sat down watching a TV program which tackled these issues and I thought 'hold on a minute'. By that point he was divorced out of our family and had had a serious stroke so was no danger to anyone else. My parents would have been destroyed by this. They were good and protective parents, that 30 seconds whilst they were in the next room with all doors open was the only opportunity he had in a decade and he took it.
I'll probably post this and disable my account as this is my biggest secret. Might not even press post to be honest. But if I do I hope you read this and take on board how subtle abuse can be when it's people known to you.

This isn’t normal behaviour. If you didn’t say something at the time you need to start saying something. And be direct about it. If you talk to him like you know what he’s doing you will be surprised how quickly he keeps his distance.

Do you even need to take your daughter to see him? Why are you taking her to visit a suspected sex offender?

Your dad is a creep. Keep all your kids away from him and have a stern word so he knows he is not fooling anyone. I’d not have him around at all and never ever let him be alone with any of them. You’re an adult, your dad is no longer your superior so don’t tiptoe around him, tell him straight.

Reading what you have described makes me very uncomfortable

Listen to your gut and withdraw.

I can not see any reason for a child to be sitting on anyone's lap for any reason, not to mind an hour.

Sadly this is not as rare as you might think.
I have had several friends over the years privately mention concerns towards elderly fathers and uncle's etc.

None ever accused them of anything, they just didn't see them for more than 5 minutes very infrequently, and they were told that they no longer did hugging.

They wouldn't engage in any discussion about it but did tell siblings that they "just thought it best".

One friend definitely thought her mother had an inkling because she took to calling on her own as her husband was in a wheelchair.

It caused them huge private grief, but they were not taking any chances.
So awful.

Tryust your instincts OP. Even if he has no sexual intentions, he is not respecting her boundaries and bodily autonomy, which is harmful to any child and more so to girls, who will have to defend them someday.

He should not be pulling her back into his lap when she wants to get off. Even if there were something he needs to keep her away from, that doesn't require sitting in lap.

I recently spent a horrible train jorney opposite a father who was treating his ca. 3 year old daughter like this. Constantly had his fat arms around her, demanding cuddles while she squirmed and pushed against his arms. When she started to slap his arm in frustration, he squeezed her harder while waffling at her about no slapping.

He wasn't talking quietly, either. It was abusive behaviour in plain sight of a crowded train and all I could do was offer distraction and point out that she might be calmer if he let her sit by herself (she had her own seat). Nobody else said anything. You can do better for your daughter.

She doesn't sound like a 'brilliant mum' at all. And what about the girl's dad? If the mum is scared or her own father and is unable to confront him, what was the dad doing?

Your young child was squirming on your father's lap for AN HOUR, was given foot massages with all the 'stroking' comments and you both did what? Sat there like two lemons?

Wtf. Do better. Defent your child. She's a 100% entitled to say no to unwanted hugs, cuddles, etc. But she's too young to get herself out of these situations, so you're the ones who have to do it for her.

And yes, you father is obviously creepy. No one with no ulterior motive wants anyone to sit on their knee for an hour. For a simple reason - it's just not comfortable. I wouldn't keep my own DD on my lap for an hour, because 1) why would I, 2) my leg would go numb.

Nope, she has the right to get off his lap, he has no right to pull her back.

And the foot rubbing is also wrong - he's getting her used to him touching her.

How do you deal with it? You need to find the words and use them. He won't like it, and he will complain, but your daughter needs to understand that she can choose how much physical contact she has with someone.

He also needs to know that you're onto him. Look up David Finkelhor on youtube - he talks about how you have to put the equivalent of a sign on your lawn saying This House is Being Watched but for your daughter. So don't leave them alone, don't let him pull her back and watch him like a hawk.

he'll work it out.

But this is how grooming works, by normalising the weird, by making it hard to speak up. You don't sound very kind, particularly as there are clearly deep seated dynamics here.

I just want to say your post gave me hope, you felt something was wrong and immediately spoke up, this is how I hope my daughters will grow up. So, thanks for pressing send!

You’re right to be concerned, your instincts are there for a reason as other posters have said.

Your first and only priority, as I’m sure you know, has to be to protect her now. The NSPCC has some great resources and a helpline you can call (https://www.nspcc.org.uk/what-is-child-abuse/types-of-abuse/child-sexual-exploitation/).

You’re doing the right thing questioning it. Xx

🚩🚩🚩

Your gut is telling you something. I am still troubled by my childhood memories of my 'uncle' having me sit on the sofa next to him with my legs across his lap, running his fingers up and down between my knees and ankles. As I got older, inappropriate comments and tickling, and then pinning me down on the bed aged 14. STOP IT NOW.

My dh is expecting a granddaughter and I can imagine him being overly affectionate with her as you describe as he’s a tactile person from a tactile family.

Having said that if your gut is warning you then you have to listen and be on high alert. Don’t give him any reason to think you’re onto him.

Hopefully some of these posts will really sink in @Stripesarethethingforme You are correct to have major concerns but are being far too passive about it.
Sadly, your daughter is already being abused by having her boundaries around physical affection ignored and not being allowed to get away. She may be aware that something doesn’t feel right to her and that is one of the reasons she wants to get down. At the moment she is not being supported in her physical autonomy by you, or protected from the contact.
It isn’t your fault that your father is like this but awful as it is, you can’t take any chances. You wouldn’t believe how brazen child abusers can be. Prevention is the key as many of us can testify. Once something has happened you can never undo it. Don’t wait for that as some kind of proof or indicator for action.
Please protect your daughter and don’t allow any physical contact with your father. He is festooned in red flags.

It is important that your DD knows she has the right to refuse to be touched or forced into an uncomfortable situation. You don't want her learning that she has to give up her bodily autonomy to keep an adult happy. I don't know what is going on with your father but he is teaching your DD dangerous lessons when it comes to how adults are allowed to treat her and how she is allowed to react.

Difficult or not, you need to listen to your gut, step up and protect your DD. Right now op. If you need people on the internet to tell you that, to tell you this is creepy AF, and to tell you something isn’t right here - well fine, consider yourself told. Please don’t let this man alone with her, preferably reduce time near him, and safeguard your child - she is being groomed and boundaries eroded in front of your eyes as you are being too passive.

If you can’t trust your gut which is telling you that this is ok, trust the people objectively commenting on this behaviour who are telling you that it is deeply inappropriate and worrying. Your priority needs to be protecting your daughter, now. This means stopping contacting between her and him. Then seek some counselling to get to the bottom of why you feel so uncomfortable around him.

Honestly I would be running a mile and not allowing my children to see him. Your responsibility is to protect your children not his feelings.

omg protect your daughter!

NC for this.

My Dad used to make me sit on his lap a lot, especially after a bath and with my Mum sitting in the other armchair. He used to molest me under my nightdress because he was a paedophile.

PROTECT YOUR CHILD!!!

Op if there's even a shadow of a doubt in your mind that he's harmful to your dd or might have been to you then you shut that shit down immediately. No explanation needed.

It's not normal to feel uncomfortable about your dad hugging you so something in his behaviour has been enough to alert your nervous system to danger.

Your dd needs to grow up listening to her inner alarm system and any adult that's over riding her boundaries at best, is making her vulnerable to abuse and at worst is grooming her for it. Any one of the things you've described would be enough for me to be calling him out directly and in front of your dd to back her up immediately and to be starting to limit contact. As a collective I'd no longer be in touch with him, no explanation given.

Op I'm sorry this is something you need to worry about. I think you should have a conversation (or another conversation) with your dd about 'tricky' people, and boundaries. I don't just teach my ds the swimsuit rule I teach him that those parts of his body are private, but that if any person touches or gets too close to you in a way you don't feel good about you can say no go away and ask for help from an adult you trust. And it doesn't matter who the person is. It also might be worth going for counselling yourself to help to y navigate and process the relationship you've had and have with your dad in a supportive way. I think it would be helpful as it might build your confidence in stepping in when you need to. When we grow up with parents like that who push boundaries or worse, that becomes the norm and it does make it harder to see things for what they are due to grooming and gaslighting so don't beat yourself up, just do what you need to in order to be stronger going forwards.

Noone should be forced to sit on someone's lap! Ever! No physical contact should be forced upon your child. You have to protect her from this. Tell him straight out :" No, Lisa does not want to sit on your lap. No, I'm not comfortable with you rubbing her feet."

The fact that you did not automatically protect your daughter implies that you may have been groomed by your father and you have difficulties with boundaries towards him. If I were you I would go to therapy first to figure out what happened to you (he might have abused you but even if he has "just forced hugs" it's a major 🚩). Do not let your daughter be around him if you are not strong enough to tell him off. Also, never ever leave your children alone with him.