Grandfather behaviour to granddaughter

[Stripesarethethingforme]

My Dad's behaviour towards my eldest daughter has started to worry me and I need some advice as I don't really have anyone I can talk to about this other than my husband who is also concerned.

My Dad asks my daughter to sit on his lap a lot - he wanted her to sit on his lap for over an hour this afternoon. Kept pulling her back in if she got off and asking her to hug him. He focuses all his attention on her and ignores his other grandchildren when she's there. He asks her to hug him a lot- for example this afternoon after having her sit in his lap for a really long time he was still asking her to come and hug him. She's six years old. It makes me deeply uncomfortable.

I found him giving her a foot massage after dinner this evening and saying how nice it was to be stroked. I'm really not happy about this but I'm not sure whether I'm projecting something that isn't there as I have a difficult relationship with my Dad. I've never liked him hugging me although I can't say exactly why, I just don't like it.

What would you do? Should I be concerned?

Totally.

Horrifying…

You need to teach her that there are no secrets in your family. Teach her that there is no good reason for any adult to want a child to keep secrets and that not all adults are safe. No secret food or drinks and no secret games. Ask her if anyone who isn’t you has asked her to keep any secrets and reassure her that you will listen to her every time and believe her. (All of this taught to me by a cop in the relevant department.) Keep reinforcing this conversation. The aim of this is to get your kids automatically parroting “We don’t keep secrets in our family. I will tell my mum!”)

I say this as someone who's DD has no memory of her paternal GF because he's a dirty fucking nonce. Get your daughter away from this man right now!!
Something never quite sat right with me and I never left my DD alone with him. Thankfully when she was about 18 months he slipped up in another way and has never set eyes on her since!

Hi, the very fact you are asking this question proves you have the right to be concerned. I'm just amazed he is risking doing it in front of you, if it is in front of you, although he seems confident that you won't challenge him. You seem to be maybe a little bit scared to do this and that could just be your personality or it could be down to deep rooted memories you have hidden away from something that happened when you were young, or is he just intimidating in his manner? Whatever the reason for this feeling you have, you need to act on it, now!.

You are an Adult now and have the responsibility of your child (and any other children in his range) If you are not confident enough to ask him why he insists on this awful, unwanted behaviour when your daughter is showing she is not happy with the situation, then your husband should step in and do it, quickly. Better still, unless you have deep love or affection for your father (and you don't seem to), then why are you even visiting? Stop the visits and keep your child safe. If you have a Mother do you not feel confident enough to broach the subject with her. If you stop visiting and you should, will he have access to other children? I entirely agree with the poster @Garliccheeseandabagel, read the post again, especially the first couple of paragraphs. Act quickly. please.

No. This is a massive no.

If a grandchild toddles over with a book, you scoop them on your lap and read until they are bored.

If they stick their feet in your direction, you give them a tickle and tell them they stink of cheese.

If they’ve hurt their foot, you say let’s have a look and rub it better.

What your dad is doing is non of these things. It is not the behaviour of a normal grandparent. Do not leave her alone with him ever. Tell him you are teaching her boundaries and you do not want him doing these things.

Having been in this situation myself it's really uncomfortable - and I don't think those who rush to blame the poster know what it's like.

With my late father who did very much the same things, he'd frame his behaviour as that of an affectionate father/grandfather. In his mind he'd be quite different from some 'dirty' predatory man, who might go round offering strange girls sweets, lifts in their cars, so that they could end up touching their genitals.

It was 'just' having them sitting on their knee, 'just' giving a massage on 'hands and feet'. And my mother confirmed that this was him being caring and good.

There is a great fashion for going no contact, but then there will come a point where the child asks why? And what do you say? I am honestly not sure if there are right and wrong answers here. Certainly no easy ones.

We need to protect our children and be aware of risks but it is also not particularly good to cut them off from a wider network of relationships

People are complicated. My father was a deeply flawed man, who did on one level genuinely love us, and some of the ways in which this affection was expressed were good. But there were other things about his behaviour that were uncomfortable and creepy- and there was, and still is, familial denial about this.

He died when my daughter was 10. I am glad that they had a relationship, but sad that I needed to supervise that relationship so very closely.

You must confront your dad about this. Just tell him to stop, that it is inappropriate. If he blusters, and I think he probably will, just insist. Then see how it goes.

There is something not right about this. You cannot be the only family members to notice.

I'm so sorry, this must be horrible for you. However your daughter comes first and she will come to dislike it, if she doesn't already.

I remember being around your DDs age, we used to go play on the park behind our house. Me, my older sister, our friend and our friends grandfather used to come on the park with his golf clubs and let us mess around playing golf. I remember he used to sit me between his legs, and put my hands behind my back. As an adult I can now vividly recall the feeling of his saggy balls, he was making me grope him. As a child I didnt understand what was happening, but now im older I remember like it was yesterday. Probably looked completely innocent from the outside to my sister, just me sat between his legs, an adult we trusted and knew well.
These things can be happening in broad daylight right infront of your face. Please safeguard your DD and keep her off his lap OP. Your senses are tingling for a reason. There's nothing wrong with sitting on a grandparents lap for a moment, but this situation you're describing is not the norm.

This is disturbing.

Trust your instincts.

I would recommend 1) Buying NSPCC book, reading this to your daughter. See link: https://www.nspcc.org.uk/keeping-children-safe/support-for-parents/pants-underwear-rule/ This is taught in school too so the consistent message is good.

2. Never under any circumstances leave your child or children alone with your father - always ensure you are there and do not trust anyone else.

3. Teacher your child to call body parts by their biological names and no nicknames. My police officer friend said this is extremely important.

4. If you see your child in a position that makes her or you uncomfortable, be her voice. "You look uncomfortable. What do we say to people who come to close? Give me space, stand back" edit as appropriate e.g. "You look uncomfortable. What do we say to people who ask us to sit on their lap? We say no I do not want to sit on your lap. Do not ask me again" etc. Do not feel any social awkwardness. Protect your child. Teach her that she can speak for herself.

These are my initial thoughts.

If it were me, I'd spend as little time as possible with him. I'd actually probably go no contact.

@GreenFields07 I'm so sorry this happened to you. Fucking monster. It makes me sick.

So good of you to give advice.

Trust your instincts. My uncle was much the same. Kissing, cuddling, forcing dgds to sit on his lap. My dad would never let me be alone with him, and I was creeped out by him even as a young child. Turned out he’d abused my girl cousins, and then his son’s daughters (the girls didn’t let their children anywhere near him). The whole family is in bits now, the guy should have done prison time for what he did, all enabled by my aunt, who was herself a victim of domestic abuse from him.

Thank you, it took me years to even process what had happened. To this day iv only ever told DH. I think its just something that I pushed to the back of my mind, until later in life when it hits you all over again. I have 3 DDs now and obviously will do everything in my power to keep them safe from things like this, but unfortunately even people we trust can turn out to be monsters. I just wanted OP to be aware that these things can happen without us knowing. I havent even told my parents.

See my dad is very affectionate with all of my daughters however he was exactly the same with me as a child and there’s absolutely nothing creepy about it to me. But it sounds different to your situation OP, sounds like you have a gut feeling.

Why don’t you voice your fears when it’s happening? If your dd is on his lap and makes it clear she wants to get down and he’s pulling her back insisting she stays why aren’t you shouting across to him asking why he’s making her do something she obviously doesn’t want to do? Embaras him, bring his behaviour to everyone’s attention, once you do I wonder how many other people will comment on his ‘creepy behaviour’. The problem is once you make it clear to him that you’re not going to allow your dd to be his ‘victim’ he’ll move onto someone else.

You need to separately talk to your daughter about this as well as removing her from his access. She needs to know it's not her fault, she's done nothing wrong, and give her age-appropriate education about these situations.

What you don't want is for her to think adult males rubbing her body parts and and touching her is allowed or even expected. He's been grooming her in plain sight.

My dad was affectionate as well. But this gf is not affectionate- he's FORCING his affection on his gd - forcing her to sit in his lap when she tries to wriggle free. Surely you can see that this is not normal nor affectionate but abusive.

Yes OP deeply concerning behaviour. I think you already know you need to keep her away from him. Do not give him the benefit of the doubt.

Trust your gut. Always.

OP just to add, given that you already have a difficult history with this man, I don't think it's fair if posters accuse you of being careless. A lot of bad stuff can get normalised within families. You noticed something was off and sought advice. I hope you find a way to manage the situation that keeps your daughter safe and doesn't add to our hurt.

The feet massaging is essentially acclimatising her to his physical contact. It will progress.

Trust your instincts.
No child wants to be treated like a toy even if it is innocent.

It's weird.
Plus you should never force a child to hug or kiss or sit with anyone .
I don't with mine. I do say use manners . So always say goodbye or thank you. But you don't need to hug anyone and so on.

All these stories of other incidences of child abuse... is that really a good idea?

Yes it is a good idea. We need to be aware of what happens.

What do you mean by "is that really a good idea"?