Grandfather behaviour to granddaughter

[Stripesarethethingforme]

My Dad's behaviour towards my eldest daughter has started to worry me and I need some advice as I don't really have anyone I can talk to about this other than my husband who is also concerned.

My Dad asks my daughter to sit on his lap a lot - he wanted her to sit on his lap for over an hour this afternoon. Kept pulling her back in if she got off and asking her to hug him. He focuses all his attention on her and ignores his other grandchildren when she's there. He asks her to hug him a lot- for example this afternoon after having her sit in his lap for a really long time he was still asking her to come and hug him. She's six years old. It makes me deeply uncomfortable.

I found him giving her a foot massage after dinner this evening and saying how nice it was to be stroked. I'm really not happy about this but I'm not sure whether I'm projecting something that isn't there as I have a difficult relationship with my Dad. I've never liked him hugging me although I can't say exactly why, I just don't like it.

What would you do? Should I be concerned?

@Stripesarethethingforme its time to find your voice and use it. You also have to be aware that speaking up will cause issue with your dad and possibly other family members but so be it.

1, you need to teach your daughter consent - that no one is allowed to touch their body, hug them, sit on ppls lap etc if she doesn’t want them to. They need to ask her if she wants a hug and she is allowed to say no. Obviously also teach your daughter what good touching and bad touching is as well. As well as other body safety rules

2, Grandfathers behaviour is weird…
I don’t think there’s any lie you can tell without him trying to counter it. I think you’re going to have to be upfront and tell him how you feel, in a way that’s final. I.e “ I feel like this, so this has to stop now”.

he’ll try and protest, but stick to your guns. It makes you uncomfortable, so no more of that. If he continues to try and initiate the hugs and the touching and lap sitting, you have just cause to distance your children away from him.

i am not sure about gut and instincts
he is your dad

but i would be firmer and say, that's enough, she needs to play

OP I know considering something so dark about your father must feel dreadful but you're better to be wrong and over cautious than find out too late that you were right.

This is not a court of law, he is not innocent until proven guilty.

This is your daughter and you need to protect her.

I would keep her away from him.

Actually you need to stop any contact betweeen them at all. Stop going round. Tough if he doesn’t like it. If your mum asks why then tell her.

You and your husband need to stop being so passive. Stop expecting your daughter to be the one to speak out against an adult and express discomfort. Put some boundaries in place right now, and tell your daughter she is not to sit on her Granddads lap. Tell him he is to stop.

Its your job as parents to be proactive and protect your children. Even if it makes you uncomfortable and even when its your own family.
Go to the NSPCC website and look up the 'Pants' rule, go through that with your kids. Tell them they can tell you anything, and you'll just listen then help them figure it out - don't assume they know they can do that. You have to tell them.

Please stop any contact with this man.
Protect your daughter before it's too late!

Are there other children he has contact with? If so, you need to report him.

My daughter was abused by a family member then later by her childminders son. I've never forgiven myself for not protecting her and I had no idea what was happening until she was an adult

This despicable human is doing this in front of you, what on earth would he do if you weren't there?

This post is almost too difficult to believe

Seriously, he’s grooming you as well. He’s teaching your DD that even though she feels uncomfortable it’s ok look as your know agrees and isn’t stoping this. He’s pushing public boundaries. Seriosily that’s the end of your contact with him.

How old is he? Is there possibly cognitive decline going on like Alzheimer's?
If that is ruled out then his behaviour is knowingly wrong. Good on you for following your gut and asking questions.

OP, whether or not this is a red flag for potential abuse is not relevant to your response. I would firmly tell your father than your DD doesnt want to be hugged so can they stop hugging, kissing , sitting on laps etc.

He won’t like it, will accuse you of making accusations and just say this is how we parent now, it’s non negotiable.

I would never ever leave you DD in his care alone. Even if your mother was there I still wouldn’t. Whether or not he is an abuser, he doesn’t sound like a nice man

I would be her voice and say no to his demands but also teach her in no uncertain terms, that she is allowed to say no to any physical contact with absolutely anyone, even you if she doesn't want to. Why you also.....my son wanted me to stop giving him a kiss and hug goodbye when he moved from nursery to main school as he was embarrassed in front of the big boys. Of course I was upset but didn't show it as I wanted he to know he could say no to anyone....including me, that no one has the right to make him feel uncomfortable. I hope you and your daughter are OK, this must be very difficult for you.

You sound like a brilliant mum, it takes a lot to even question this behaviour

I would recommend staying as far away as you can possibly manage

Are he and your mum still together?

What o find worrying is that despite both you and your DH being very uncomfortable with this, neither of you said anything or at least removed your daughter from the situation.

Why didn’t you do anything at the time? Are you intimidated by your DF?

I agree with everyone above saying to protect your daughter but also you need to empower her. If she is trying to get off his lap, you need to back her up and say "Dad, Jane is telling you with her body language that she wants to go and play, please let her go. Well done Jane for telling us what you want." She needs to know you back her up and that she can say what she wants to do with her body. Maybe buy her a book about consent to help encourage her and for you to understand how you need to support her against an adult not listening

Whether he is abusive or not nobody should be coerced into any physical contact they don't like.
DH's family are very "give so and so a kiss" to the children and I have always said that they don't have to.
Having said that In your shoes I would be very worried OP and stop contact

Why didn't you say anything to your dad when he kept making your DD sit on his lap? That's bizarre even if you didn't have a gut feeling something was wrong. All you needed to say was she wants to get down and play now.
But now I would stop contact. His behaviour is at best weird at worst abusive . And on top of that he's letting his other grandchildren know they are not important. That will affect them too.
In order to protect your children you either go no contact or very low contact. If you do see him either you or your husband are watching him the whole time.
Also teach your DD she can say no. Tell her no-one has the right to touch or hug her unless she wants to.

It's the insisting that's creepy, OP.

I sat on my grandfather's lap while he read to me for ages when I was young but he usually got fed up before I did. When I wanted to get down and run around he never insisted I stay.

We're a very huggy family but only on meeting and leaving.

It could be innocent but I would be wary in your place.

He's a weirdo - or worse. He seems oblivious too. You need to have very firm words or cut him out of all contact .

TRIGGER WARNING Do not let her sit on his lap. My stepfather sexually abused me when I was 6. I never told anyone then but I had to sit on his lap and he would have his finger in my pants (sorry I know it's explicit but it happened.).
After 30 years he was arrested for abusing his granddaughters, not mine because I never allowed her near him but the guilt I feel is terrible that I didn't do anything to protect them. Even though my sister was abused by him and let her daughter's stay overnight alone with him after mum died. Thankfully he died in prison. It*s a shit situation.

I absolutely second everyone who says that you need to find a way of stopping this. It is deeply inappropriate and your daughter needs to be safeguarded.

however I’ve also come on to add that as your dad is a certain age, it just prompted a thought that dementia sometimes can cause inappropriate sexual behaviour: https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/get-support/daily-living/challenging-sexual-behaviour-dementia#:~:text=Dementia%20can%20cause%20a%20person,or%20behave%20sexually%20in%20public.

so if you are seeing any other signs, it may be worth referring him for some support himself

She is six!

Your gut is screaming. Honestly, just tell him to stop, he is OTT.
I would absolutely hate this. He is banking on your silence.
If you want to be polite, say your teaching DD about boundaries.

I just wouldn’t be going back or having him around, I’m sorry. There’s no excuse for this behaviour and given how he’s made you feel also? No. Stop all contact.

As others have said, listen to your gut.

My father was like this. Focusing on DD, lots of 'sit on grandad's lap', come up the garden with me, etc, etc. Thankfully, nothing ever happened - both DH and myself had a 'feeling' and kept her in sight. He was completely dismissive of DS.

When DD was 11 or 12, and started rebelling (for want of a better word!) his odd behaviour towards her stopped. She has since said that she thought his behaviour was wierd and was pleased when it ended.

But, his sister had a friend with a young girl - 5 or 6 and he transferred this, frankly, odd behaviour to her. He was made up when his new neighbours arrived with their two young girls. As far as I know, at no point did anything untoward happen, just an over focus on the little girls. A particular type, mind you, blonde with blue eyes.

His neighbours, however, noticed something 'off' and prevented him from seeing the girls. This pissed him off.

After his death, my step-sister let slip that he had attempted to rape her when she was 15. She believes something also happened with her older sister but has never been able to confirm this.

So, apologies for the ramble, but absolutely listen to your gut!

Absolutely this! It definitely sounds like he could be grooming her, and getting her to be assertive with him herself is a very sound idea (obviously with support from you).

It’s hopefully merely eccentric and misguided behaviour rather than abuse, so taking a soft line initially would work best I think for everyone.

If it is, then your dad will realise it’s inappropriate and stop. If it’s sadly more sinister then you’ve prevented it from escalating.

I feel for you - what a horrid position to be in.

OP, this. THIS is the best on point response I see so far.

Which scenario would you rather? Offending your DM and DD by stopping them seeing your DD?

Or

Your DD is sexually abused by her GF?

Not saying she is being abused or will be abused, but the basic principle of safeguarding is when you have a situation like this to forcefully protect your daughter, not risk abuse.

Your gut tells you something is off here, listen to it. You are her mother. It is your duty to protect your daughter. As it is for your husband too. Read "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin Becker.

1. Stop contact.
2. Allow your daughter bodily autonomy, never force her to kiss, hug or sit on anyones lap if she doesn't want to.
3. Teach your daughter she is allowed to say no, back her up when she does.

I despair, I really do, when I see parents forcing children to give physical affection to people who insist on it. That is absolutely teaching children to be perfect victims of sexual abuse.

Stop it.