To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen for ober

[ThisNattyTurtle]

Israel killed more children in 15 months than were killed in all the conflicts of the world in the last 4 years combined. Israel is killing children again now at an unprecedented rate and the UK is supporting it with weapons, money and intelligence.
Israel is committing genocide according to the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. Israel killed 159 Palestinians, including children, during the ceasefire - only 1 Israeli was killed in that time and that was a soldier in a friendly fire event.

Mumsnet HQ there are at least 3 threads about Ukraine still on AIBU, and many other political ones. Please do not hide this topic away in the other section again without at least explaining why UK involvement in the mass slaughter of children is not worthy of the front page. We are supporting a regime much worse than Russia, as much as Russia's regime is awful.

If Hamas is in deep tunnels then why is Israel bombing aid kitchens and ambulances?

Gaza became self-governing in 2005.

No. They were put under a total air, sea and land blockade since 2005. They were not given any self-rule whatsoever.

The refugee camps were founded in 1947/8, and so yes they’re not living in tents because international aid meant infrastructure was built. They are still refugee camps.

The Israeli blockade including refusing building materials and permits are all well documented.

It’s 3 of 3 border crossings, the treaty with Egypt means both Egypt and Israel have to approve anything and anyone going through the Rafah border crossing.

Please expand on why Israel bombed the airport after it was closed down during the second intifada.

Wasn’t it something to do with plans to bring in weapons and militants to use against Israel?

Wasn’t there an intercepted boat packed with fifty tonnes of weapons bound for Gaza which may have something to do with territorial waters having to be controlled afterwards?

Wasn’t there kidnappings, knife and shooting attacks and suicide bombings leading up to this?

Wasn’t there a terrorist organisation, with a clear mandate to destroy Israel and kill Jews, voted in to govern Gaza in 2006 after Israel left them to it in 2005?

Didn’t thousands of Gazans cross from their open air prison into Israel to work right up until Oct 7th, because their own government was more interested in making rockets to fire at Israel rather than creating an economy for them?

Surely the parents of the children today being killed in a war with Israel started by their terrorist government, who voted them in, might have realistically been expected to think ahead as to why that might cause problems with having peace with Israel and Israel needing to take heavy security measures to protect it’s citizens further down the line?

This disingenuous rewriting of the narrative for where we are today, as if the Palestinians were just peacefully going about their business creating their own State, while Israel has been constantly oppressing them and killing them just because they’re evil Jews, is sickening and doesn’t wash with anyone with critical thinking skills.

As has already been stated, approximately 7% of Gazans today would have voted for Hamas. Most of the people giving birth to the children being blown up wouldn’t have been able to vote. So no, I don’t think they will
feel respinsible for voting them in.

And as has already been stated, nobody (except the pro Israel people on this thread) has referred to Jews as being the problem.

you can’t shoehorn antisemitism into this argument. I don’t infer that Jews are evil from the Israeli governments actions, the same as I don’t infer Muslims are evil from Hamas’ actions.

Problem is you are not talking about documented fact. Only about 1 side of so called documented fact. Not the same as truth

Yes

More than half of Israelis adults DID vote in Ariel Sharon after he was found to be a war criminal by a UN investigation into his role in the Sabra and Shatila massacres. That was before Hamas and when the PA had renounced armed resistance. Sharon then deliberately stirred up the Intifada. So by your logic all the Israeli adults who voted him in are fair game and the children beside them are unfortunate collateral? That's disgraceful both ways it's applied. Shame.

I’m not sure this thread is really your thing is it?

Do you have links from international organisations that support your fact ?

Hamas is de facto the state in Gaza - there is no other authority, so either they run it we are looking at arnarchy.* Why ask me to guess who blocked Palestine becoming a full member of the UN - it's the US, a verifiable fact?
The phones rigged to explode in the hand were investigated thoroughly. It was Israel, using a dummy company within the EU (so a safe place to buy from) to sell phones to Hamas who were using them to plot terrorism. I am not happy that they exploded in the hands of children or of innocent Gazans who also bought them and Israel is culpable for that. But, unlike your robot hoovers, the purchasers of (most of) the phones were not innocently buying them - they were bought to plot terrorist acts and the friends recommending them to each other were (mostly) terrorists. The entire wicked plot by Israel backfired on them since Hamas and their allies took to using letters sent in the post to plot terrorism, since a) phones could be tapped and b) they might explode. This is one reason the long planned events on Oct 7th got under Israel's radar which means the Israeli government bears some culpability for the success of the attacks.
I suspect one reason more fuss was not made about the phone incident is that many security services across the world use such underhand methods to get at non-state agents who are terrorists, and did not wish this to become common knowledge rather than a guess.
*anarchy is lack of a central authority (literally, lack of an archon/ruler), it does not mean that no-one obeys any laws that exist, only that the choice to do so or not is up to individuals and laws are individually enforced.
NB You might as well have told the actual phone story btw.

It's seems its OK to criticise Israel on MN but popping up an article on aibu by another poster stating Amnesty International realises it didn't condemn Hamas enough is swiftly deleted! Interesting.

Brave Gazans are speaking out and also want Hamas gone seems to gain little traction!

I screenshot a bit of the report we cannot see.

"Members of Amnesty International hinted that condemning Hamas too much may bolster the Israeli narrative."

Where you don’t know something you just seem to make it up - the pager attack by Israel happened in 2024 so had no bearing on how October 7th 2023 was organised. It also targeted Hezbollah rather than Hamas.

Gaza is not a state, not a country. Hamas is govering it, but they are not a country, not a UN member. Palestine is not a UN member because of the US.
My badly made points were:
(1) it was a terrorist act by nature
(2) it was not legally or officially called a terrorist act because it was done by Israeli security services.
The difference between militants, terrorists and freedom fighters are well known. So the emotional labels 'but they are terrorists' are not informative arguments.

Do they say how many Gazans have been killed by Hamas bombs, drones and snipers in the past 18 months?

I have absolutely no faith in “international organisations” who continue to spout lies and anti israel/Semitic rhetoric

Agree

Of course not. Those deaths don’t count as israel didn’t cause them

I see. It must be hamas. They seem to have taken over IDF and israeli government.

I can understand that. It must be awkward not being able to substantiate anything you say while still trying to appear that you actually know what you're talking about.

Of course it is hammas. Who sends up the rockets in the Gaza Strip if not them?

Your reading comprehension skills are obviously lacking as I was referring to the Gazans who voted Hamas in, in 2006. A lot of those people would be the parents and grandparents of the children killed and put in harms way today.

The argument that most Palestinians TODAY did not vote Hamas in is rather tiresome and seems to want to perpetuate the fallacy that no one in Gaza voted for them or supported them and they just somehow took over, when the truth is the majority of Gazans in their 30’s and over today did vote for them knowing full well what their charter was.

They need to take responsibility for that.