To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen for ober

[ThisNattyTurtle]

Israel killed more children in 15 months than were killed in all the conflicts of the world in the last 4 years combined. Israel is killing children again now at an unprecedented rate and the UK is supporting it with weapons, money and intelligence.
Israel is committing genocide according to the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. Israel killed 159 Palestinians, including children, during the ceasefire - only 1 Israeli was killed in that time and that was a soldier in a friendly fire event.

Mumsnet HQ there are at least 3 threads about Ukraine still on AIBU, and many other political ones. Please do not hide this topic away in the other section again without at least explaining why UK involvement in the mass slaughter of children is not worthy of the front page. We are supporting a regime much worse than Russia, as much as Russia's regime is awful.

But one could source the animosity to then perfectly validly. Just as it was very clear, when Syrians were flooding across Hungary's border, that Hungarians remembered perfectly well the Islamic invasions of the 15th century and this played into shutting their borders. History matters.
Ditto the war between Serbia and Croatia - the animosity goes back centuries.

I know why they exist. And I do not support one side. Do not assume that because on some points I disagree with you I must be ignorant.

The bodies came back. Those children would be alive but for the events of Oct 7th when they and their parents were taken hostage. That's incontroveribly true however they actually died.

I can only find a link to a later story, which I have sourced in another post here.

Hezbollah has not destroyed Lebanon

Why did Christians leave en masse?

I was not refering to animosity, but only to the ideology.

According to Counter Currents .org, the Palestinian Authority pays $11M for the electricity it buys from Israel, some of that goes to Gaza, but Gaza also bus 120 megawatts from Israel each month. So not free, apparently (so the BBC must have been in error at the beginning of the war) and Israel has decided not to sell electricity to its enemies - standard siege tactic. Information source is pro-Palestinian.

Certainly, the ideology is about 70 years old. The Ottoman Empire had been the governing power here for several hundred years - Jews and Christians lived within the empire under toleration.

Thanks. So Israel is not providing electricity for free to Palestine. And no idea about water whether this is free or not. However, I know that Palestine’s aren’t allowed to collect water because Israel doesn’t allow them and Israel uses water as a weapon and cuts it quite frequently and has destroyed the few tanks Palestines had to collect water

By state actors I mean some official affiliation with a state. Gaza is not a state. Palestine is a state, but not a member of the UN because one of the permanent members of the UN security council refuses to recognise it. I'll let you guess which one.
Hamas is not a goverment of Palestine. They won the elections in 2006, but their neighbours and the military behind their neighbours refused to recognise the elections. So no, Hamas is not a state actor.
When someone says 'a terrorist' it is not immediately clear what they mean by it. It can be a judgment of the actions. Or, it can be recognition by their authority. Sometimes it's just an insult.
Let me try to demostrate by example.
Imagine you buy a roaming hoover (like Roomba) and let it clean your home. You recommend it to your friends and neighbours, it works well. All happy. Then night they all creep to your beds and explode. (Sorry, I know it's awful). You all bought it in the EU. A free-Tibet militant group says it's behind the operation. Would you call it a terrorist act? I would . I guess you would too. All our European governments would open investigation about explosives roaming our street, they would denounce the act, nominate free-Tibetans a terrorist organisation and try to cut ties to anyone associated.
You know what I'm referring to. There was silence in response, because the act was by 'a friendly state'.
And another aspect of it - when an ISIS member becomes the head of the government, pretty soon our governments say 'oh, he changed' and remove the 'terrorist' label. Because 'governments cannot be terrorists' by definition.

Wikipedia puts it to 1897.

That’s essentially the point I’m making, just because either say so doesn’t make it true. Thank you.

I just find it rather distasteful how someone on the thread was using it as one upmanship in their argument when they don’t even know themselves what really happened. None of us do.

Why don’t Hamas give shelter to the Gazan civilians in their deep tunnels??

Or indeed why wasn't any of the billions of aid money used to build bomb shelters? Come to think of it, why didn't the Gazaans focus on building their pseudo state over the 18 years they were living autonomously, rather than it all going on weaponry against Israeli citizens?

Any infrastructure Gaza builds always gets bombed or bulldozed - do you not watch the news? Also Israel have consistently blocked building materials from entering the strip! It will take several lifetimes to undo the damage done by Israel.

I’m not sure every civilian would fit in the tunnels. But it’s probably for the same reason that Israel won’t stop killing civilians.

According to the Christians mainly evangelicals Israel is going to defeat all it's enemies then Jesus appear in the sky Sorry but that doesn't make any sense to me all the innocent children being killed first

Why have Israel been in the occupied parts of Gaza Gaza hasn't been allowed it's own land and attacking refugees how low can they get

Gaza looked very well developed before the Oct 7th attacks. Almost as if they had no issue building.
Those alleged ‘refugee camps’ that were bombed at the beginning of the conflict looked as well developed as anywhere in the Middle East.
Certainly not tent cities as depicted.

What out of the blue? Or in response to thousands of rockets fired at Israeli civilians?

Gaza became self-governing in 2005. If only they'd focused on their own growth rather than Israeli death and destruction.

@Licky Gaza was not self governing.
Israel controlled, electricity, imports and exports, taxes , federal wages, internet speed, water and building permits and movement of people.

They controlled the airspace (bombing the only airport in 2001 3 years after it opened) and territorial waters and 2 of the 3 border crossings.

Would you consider this self governing?

Do you think collective punishment is the solution? Destroying infrastructure that is there to support the citizens ?

Probably becuase they’re a terrorist organisation who’s primary concern is not the well being of Palestinian civilians?

are you thinking you’ve come to present an argument to convince people Hamas aren’t the good guys? We know that. The pro Palestinian argument isn’t pro Hamas.