To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen for ober

[ThisNattyTurtle]

Israel killed more children in 15 months than were killed in all the conflicts of the world in the last 4 years combined. Israel is killing children again now at an unprecedented rate and the UK is supporting it with weapons, money and intelligence.
Israel is committing genocide according to the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. Israel killed 159 Palestinians, including children, during the ceasefire - only 1 Israeli was killed in that time and that was a soldier in a friendly fire event.

Mumsnet HQ there are at least 3 threads about Ukraine still on AIBU, and many other political ones. Please do not hide this topic away in the other section again without at least explaining why UK involvement in the mass slaughter of children is not worthy of the front page. We are supporting a regime much worse than Russia, as much as Russia's regime is awful.

London is not full of terrorists who are the state, the government. That, sadly, is the difference between London and Gaza. Gaza is ruled by a government of terrorists who are determined to destroy the country next door to them, that supplies them with free electricity and water.
Gazans could stop the slaughter by not backing Hamas, by backing the destruction of Hamas (and Hezbollah, which has destroyed Lebanon). Hamas were voted in as the government c.20 years ago and there has not been another election - perhaps the West should force an election? That won't end well, either. More Gazans, not just the few who bravely stood up and protested in danger of their very lives (from Hamas, not Israel), need to start saying 'this is enough, let's get rid of Hamas'.

But they never had the capability to “eradicate Israel” It was never a possibility.

Also after 18 months of conflict, Hamas has the same number of fighters?? So what is Israel trying to do this time? What do you think the end goal is?

They had a path to getting the hostages back? They had a path to rebuilding the strip from the Arab plan? What is the plan now do you think?

Do you have a link about Israel supplying FREE electricity?

also, are you aware about why Israel has to supply water ?

The whole point is that the Palestinians are being driven out of their homes, villages and towns by the army and ‘settlers’, (note the word ‘settler’ - ie land thief), since 1947. Hamas was set up by Israel to counter the PLO and the Palestinian Authority. Resistance to an occupying or invading power is legal. (Note also that Israel is also occupying a large chunk of Lebanon, having made over a million there homeless,
and killing thousands. And a big chunk of Syria. Perhaps having an apartheid state in Israel ensures that that the Palestinians will always be the 3rd class citizen in what was their own country till it was taken over.)
So if Hamas gives up - then what? Leave the remaining battered and traumatised people to rot in the rubble? Israel wants Gaza and the West Bank and is trying to get rid of the legitimate Palestinian inhabitants. Have you seen the size of ‘Eretz Israel’??

Hamas is weakened militarily which weakens it's ability to govern Gaza.

Can only be a good thing, right?

So if Hamas gives up - then what? Leave the remaining battered and traumatised people to rot in the rubble?

Hamas cannot continue to govern Gaza. They are the cause of the rubble, not the solution.

It can either look like many 'inconsistencies', or 'going too far', or it can look like a policy over the many years he's been in power. And his government is fully supported by the US and the UK.
How else can one interpret the actions, if not the destructions of palestinians? Just imagine the largest ever cohort of child amputees. On top of that you bomb hospitals and stop the supply of food and medicine? Even when the food was allowed, they did not allow any painkillers stronger than paracetamol. So, the doctors were chopping off crashed child limbs with no anaestesia.
These people will always be israeli neighbours - unless the netanyahu government hopes they will not. This is not a path to israeli safety.

As for the UK and the US - any government who says they support the 2 state solution but has only recognised one of the two states is liar.

To start with, no state actor is ever called a terrorist. This definition only ever applies to non state actors.
For example, we can all think of a government or two who fully deserve to be called terrorists, but they never will. So 'terrorist' is (1) legal term with subsequent restrictions and (2) an indicator of which side on supports.

The 2000lb bombs on Gaza were not by Hamas. Do we agree on this fact?

I am being reasonable here, only went back to abt 100years. Agree, that going back to the 8th century would be too far!

So were the raped and murdered Jews who were burnt in the streets while Hamas supporters celebrated around their corpses.
So were the Bibas babies who were strangled by those you seek to support with your "values" and your "morals".

Hezbollah has not destroyed Lebanon, Hezbollah stepped in after the Israeli invasion of 82 (remember also that Israel paid for and trained the Phalangist militia in Lebanon and assisted in the massacre of Palestinians at Sabra and Shatila camp). Hezbollah provided food aid and healthcare for thousands of Shia Muslims in Lebanon, who had long been neglected by the state. Then moved in support of the Palestinians and in response to persistent Israeli harassment of Lebanese border towns and villages. I was amused to read your claim that Israel provides free water and electricity to Gaza. Since when? Interesting that, given that they cheerfully bombed several of Lebanon’s power plants, desalination plants even the airport - before ‘Gaza’ , and it’s a shame they turned off the power to all the hospitals and wtw in Gaza, oh but that’s because they’d bombed most of them. Israel has ignored all the UN resolutions re Palestine and Lebanon. Resistance to an invading force is actually legal - if you educated yourself as to why these groups exist rather than looking at it purely from one side.

We don’t know how the Bibas children died because neither side has ever produced any evidence. Do you have inside information?

We don’t know how the Bibas children died because neither side has ever produced any evidence. Do you have inside information?

The IDF said they were strangled and mutilated postmortem.

But why could it be achieved this time? It was not achieved before. And what would happen even if it succeeded ? Another armed group would come in the void? The only plan for a day after is Trump Gaza now. Which many Israeli’s support unfortunately. But there is no alternative political path to peace like you would need if you genuinely wanted to eradicate a government x

Blinken made this commentary several times - about the lack of a plan and the impossibility of eradicating Hamas, about the indiscriminate bombing.

Surely you must question why the war has been restarted.

I’m dumbfounded at the amount of people on here who don’t understand what evidence is. Because the IDF say so is not evidence. They haven’t produced any evidence. They made several claims but they did not provide any evidence to substantiate those claims.

I think she is talking about the indiscriminate violence killing all Palestinians rather than targeted campaigns against Hamas.

You may not realise, but many people share values and morals about not wanting to see ordinary civilians, most especially children, suffer in war. And that is all children, whether we are talking about the Bibas babies or Hind Rajab, it is completely and utterly wrong that they were killed in this war.

That Biblical Palestine. Cerainly Netanyahu would like all that territory as would his right-wing supporters who want a return to 'historical Israel' (they need to be choosy about which Israel to my mind).

That doesn't mean Israelis support him.
Just as it seems most Gazans don't support Hamas. Here's an article from spiked online: https://www.spiked-online.com/2025/03/27/why-gazans-are-rising-up-against-hamas/

But the Bibas children are dead who would still be alive but for Hamas' attack on their kibutz on Oct 7th, so however they actually died, Hamas killed them.
I am equally amazed that people accept the veracity of Hamas sourced information. Just because Hamas says it is (just like the IDF) that doesn't make it true.

Neither side have produced any evidence, that’s kind of the whole point.

I’m dumbfounded at the amount of people on here who don’t understand what evidence is. Because the IDF say so is not evidence. They haven’t produced any evidence. They made several claims but they did not provide any evidence to substantiate those claims.

They are sharing relevant evidence internationally. Why would you expect them to release medical records to the general public? They still wouldn't be believed anyway.
That's been the strategy all along, since the initial attack. Downplay, deny, demand intrusive evidence and spread outright lies.

At the beginning of the war BBC stated that Israel supplied Gaza's electricity without charge. Water comes from desalination plants which need electricity to run. You'd have thought, after running the place for twenty years, Hamas would have acquired a more reliable supply of electricity than the Israel it wants to wipe off the map (that's what the phrase 'from the river to the sea' means).
BBC story: www.bbc.co.uk - Israel cuts off electricity supply to Gaza, minister says.

I think whilst I agree with you the sentence should end with “that has been verified by independent investigators”. Just because Hamas or idf say something doesn’t meant it’s true. Both have lied to their own benefit

Do you have a link to that ?

Which state actors? Do explain. But you miss my point. Hamas, the government of Gaza, is a terrorist organisation, and it is a state actor. Mr Khan, the Mayor of London, who runs the government of London, is not a terrorist (whatever you think of the way he runs the place), nor is he building tunnels under the city to hide his un-uniformed troops, nor is he lobbing rockets into the City on a daily basis, nor is he calling for the destruction of the rest of England. Hamas is doing the equivalent of all that.