(Most) Women don't look at men the same way men look at women?

[focuseddreamer]

Please can you all help me out as I’m interested to find if AIBU? Named changed for this.
Had a heated discussion with husband earlier this week where it came around to a subject we’ve discussed many times in the past but I always get shut down. Women don’t look at men in the same way as men look at women (I know that’s a very broad statement). So essentially he is saying many men will look at a woman and think “ cor look at the arse on that” and I agree as fundamentally males brains are hard-wired to do that. I am saying that (most) women do not look at men and think the same way. Women are more likely to think “ Cor he’s gorgeous/big/strong/intelligent/charismatic” etc, fundamental difference as women’s brains are hard-wired to look for a good mate to produce healthy off- spring.
Apparently, I’m wrong, I don’t know how women think and a lot of women think about men the same way men think about women!
So I’m interested to think what your thoughts on the subject are please. I’d like to show him the results from a group of women 😊

I guess this is why beautiful young women go out with ugly older men -

In real life, this is extremely rare, despite male fantasies to the contrary.

Beautiful young women tend to go out with beautiful young men. If such a woman is with an 'ugly older man' it will not be because she finds him wildly attractive, but because he has something, usually a ton of money, to offset his lack of attractiveness.

It takes a lot of attraction and mood lighting for me to decide that that bundle of dead grouse and onions looks objectively attractive.

Obviously I have my moments when the goggles are on, but I couldn’t in cold blood open a double page porn spread of a pant-less male and think: “wow that’s simply lovely to look at.” It seems to me many men can manage that sort of genitalia consumption at the drop of a hat.

I notice how attractive both men and women are. Guess I am shallow :D
I'd also say I see a greater number of women who are attractive, but that is a feeling of "aww, good for her, doesn't she look great", whereas with a man it's more "wish I'd been in his league a few years ago" or "imagine being with him!"
A man's bottom is more likely to put me off by being too round or too flat, though. I'm more likely to admire his eyes, face, shoulders, chest, or calves. Love a deep voice, too.

How does everyone feel if they get a peek of a guy's boxers? I feels guys would be more excited at a peak of knickers.

I quite like boxers but Y fronts 🩲 do very little for me.

Or because she’s wildly insecure and thinks being with an unattractive man that knows he’s punching above his weight he’s unlikely to cheat or be attractive to anyone else.

The regularity with which this defence is rolled out – that evolutionary-wise men are hard-wired to "disperse their seed" into as many women as they could – is dangerous because it evokes a period in history when women were routinely raped and did not get to choose their mates. It glosses conveniently over the fact that we have all evolved! Look at us. We are not the same as those cave dwellers, and yet we are still being sold this one pre-historic, misogynisitc tripe to support the myth that men can't keep it in their pants because that is how they are made. Boring.

But they CAN keep it in their pants. They have to learn.

ETA I could happily devour entire tubs of Ben and Jerry’s but I manage not to.

Indeed. That is my point. They don't want to learn. They want to keep perpetuating this historical notion that it's not their fault; it's how they are made.

This question reflects the different position that men and women are in when they confront a stranger of the opposite sex. The man is more likely to be bigger and stronger, and much less likely to fear sexual assault.
Hence the existence of upskirting but the rarity of women trying to get a peek of underpants. It's a whole different context.

I’m made to like Ben and Jerry’s. We all have to exercise restraint.

Ha ha ha exactly!

Whilst both men and women can look at a member of the opposite, or indeed same sex, and find them attractive, I don’t think I it is possible for men and women to view the opposite sex in the same way.

I believe this is because at an unconscious (possibly even sub conscious) level, men know they can (in the main) overpower and “take” a female they find attractive. SchoolBoys don’t need to “learn” what it’s like to walk past a group of men leering at them in their school uniform or to change their running route because it goes past a building site. So females learn to at times fear the male gaze, whereas males don’t tend to fear the female gaze.

I also believe that men can totally reduce a woman’s body to parts to do sex to whereas women generally don’t - the popularity of the “face down arse up” sex position is representative of this - no kissing or eye contact needed - literally just shagging an arse so to speak.

So I don’t think women look at men the same way men look at women. Your DH is using the “but women also look at men” trope to justify the ways in which men leer at women in ways that can make them feel very uncomfortable and possibly even afraid. It’s a very misogynistic viewpoint in my opinion.

edited for spelling

Y-fronts are like old man pants. I was just thinking to myself that a man's excitement at seeing a pair of decently pretty knickers would be greater than a woman's excitement when seeing a guy's boxer shorts.

While I don’t think the “ seed dispersal” argument exonerates men from exercising restraint, I do think it possibly lies at the heart of the ( different) things they find attractive.

My DH doesn’t struggle much with Ben and Jerry’s; his personal battle of restraint would be more with burgers 🍔. Different tastes, but all need moderation in terms of the level of abandon with which we indulge in them.

men really do tend to find womens genitals attractive
Is this true? Men find the average vulva attractive?

I would guess I am a bit of both.
I certainly find personality traits (like a sense of humour, intelligence, kindness, ...) would make me attracted to a man.
But I can also appreciate a physically attractive man.
I would say that the mental would win out for me though. For example, I may find a celebrity attractive but then find out they are an arsehole and totally go off them.

Do women just show their interest more subtly?

I am blessed with an attractive husband, and whilst drunken women (and sometimes men) may overtly ogle how good his arse looks in his Levis, most will just try and engage with him above what would be expected in the situation we are in. It’s hard to explain but there will be a slight increase in their animation, or an excuse to touch his arm, or a blush if he says something nice to them. Often there is no deliberate attempt to disrespect me, I believe it’s just a normal female response to a man who is very attractive, with a great and engaging personality.

The question is whether the different reactions are due to social conditioning or genuine differences in sexual behaviour between the sexes. The Diet Coke advert was a play on this, in real life I have never met any woman who responded to a male that overtly.

I actually have several prints of oil paintings of nude men and genuinely think the genitalia is beautiful. And sexy!

There was a funny thread on here a while back where a poster had somehow torn her vulva ( or burned it or something). Her comment was that the male doctor who had to attend to it got to have a great day. I wasn’t so convinced that damaged and in surgery lighting it would have been all that alluring even to a man …

Yes art can work but I think the artist tends to do a bit of arranging …

Yes, it is complex. Any anthropologists on here want to wade in? I am probably out of my depth here, but I am just not convinced by the argument (not yours, the general one) that we have evolved in just about every way except willy-wagging after a "nice arse" with no accountability. It feels a bit flawed to me.

There has to be accountability. That’s what civilisation is.

I mean it’s actually easier to just fart audibly but most of us don’t.

Sadly, the truth is that a large percentage of males in the world cannot ‘keep it in their pants’. Is it because of the myth, or just typical male behaviour? On a global scale, we are one of a small percentage of women who get to choose our mates.

The horrors of rape as a weapon of war, and examples of male behaviour in other situations, show a grim and revolting side to male sexuality.