(Most) Women don't look at men the same way men look at women?

[focuseddreamer]

Please can you all help me out as I’m interested to find if AIBU? Named changed for this.
Had a heated discussion with husband earlier this week where it came around to a subject we’ve discussed many times in the past but I always get shut down. Women don’t look at men in the same way as men look at women (I know that’s a very broad statement). So essentially he is saying many men will look at a woman and think “ cor look at the arse on that” and I agree as fundamentally males brains are hard-wired to do that. I am saying that (most) women do not look at men and think the same way. Women are more likely to think “ Cor he’s gorgeous/big/strong/intelligent/charismatic” etc, fundamental difference as women’s brains are hard-wired to look for a good mate to produce healthy off- spring.
Apparently, I’m wrong, I don’t know how women think and a lot of women think about men the same way men think about women!
So I’m interested to think what your thoughts on the subject are please. I’d like to show him the results from a group of women 😊

And sadly I agree.

The problem is, we haven't evolved. Evolution doesn't work that quickly, not for a species with 20 - 30 years between generations. Instead we've civilized, that happens an awful lot quicker.

I'll agree with you 100% that it shouldn't be used as a defense, but I think not acknowledging it at all is just as dangerous.

The fact is that there's a reason that men commit the vast majority of sexual crimes. Part of that is simply because men are stronger, and strength is power, which has been codified over thousands of years into our patriarchal society. Which means that men have the ability to carry out these crimes, and a good likelyhood of getting away with them.

But a bigger part of it is that men at a very base level, feel that they should be having sex. They notice people they want to have sex with more, they fantasize it more. There's a lot of talk on the weight loss threads about "food noise", I'd like to propose the term "Sex noise" for what I'm talking about.

I don't think ignoring that that exists, and that its vastly more prominent for men is a good idea We've not evolved out of that, we've not had time. I think telling men that there's something wrong with them because they have that noise doesn't help. What young men should be being taught by other men is that yes, it exists, but that its something that you control, and that controlling it isn't difficult.

Indeed, and to quote Calliopespa, "There has to be accountability. That’s what civilisation is."

Agree … or even if it is “difficult,” it doesn’t remove the need to control it.

Or we just don't do it?

We have evolved in so many ways that are not just about being civilised; from how we walk, eat, live, and how many teeth we now have, and organs we don't use anymore! So evolution has happened, but some people just seem selective about what they do and don't want to acknowledge as an evolutionary change, and the old "men can't help it" re. sexual behaviour trope is wearing pretty thin. Again... any anthropologists please wade in. Personally, for me I am sick of hearing that men are wired to be over-sexed idiots and women only look for square jaws and height. It's so reductive and no longer true; if it was we'd be a species of just really big boobed, round arsed, square jawed people because we'd only mate within that trope. I have just always thought it's a very thin argument for really bad behaviour.

Generally I do agree with you OP. Although I have been known to 'perv' on a man's physical attributes from time to time I think it tends to be when I'm ovulating 😆

But I don’t think that having a proclivity is the same thing as “ just can’t help it.”

Honestly, I would say most women are at least somewhat attractive. I can find beauty in most women, across all ages, races, shapes, and aesthetics. I don’t find many men attractive. I have a very specific type - if you lined up every man I have ever fancied they all look like they could be related. If a man doesn’t tick all the boxes, I don’t find him attractive, but women I do generally think look better. Maybe it’s because women put more effort in, maybe I am a secret lesbian.

Gotta love your DH assertion that you, a woman, don’t know how most women think, but he, a man does.

I was originally replying to the OP who said, "that from an evolutionary point of view men are driven to disperse their seed so look more to fertility features ( so boobs, hips)." I guess we'd need to unpack the word "driven." All I know is if I had a £1 for every time on MN and other forums the evolutionary argument is rolled out to excuse men's behaviour, I would pay off my mortgage today!

I think historically men have been less subtle. One thing I notice now is when I go out with my son (he is good looking, though I am biased), some women look him up and down with quite some intent. I have sometimes felt like saying oye, keep your eyes to yourself!

I have looked at certain men and thought they were exceptionally handsome, sometimes breathtakingly so, but more in the sense that I would admire a beautiful painting or a fabulous building or amazing scenery. I definitely don’t dwell on arses or abs or indeed on physique in general. And the vast majority of men I don’t notice at all because I’m too busy living my life. Plus I wouldn’t give them the satisfaction of looking at them😆

I notice gorgeous men and think phwoargh. I saw the most beautiful young man ( young maaaaan) when I was out the other night and thought “ if I was 20 years younger…”) I wouldn’t say anything though it’s just in my head.

Slight derail but was dismayed to see Unilever have fired the CEO because he was anti-Trump and publicly. I think all BJ buyers should be aware!

That's really well put. I watched the Gareth Southgate Richard Dimbleby Lecture last night on iplayer, talking about the young men of today and how they need good positive role models to influence them and give them a sense of identity, culture and connection. More and more of them are spending time online and looking to figure like Andrew Tate for influence and guidance.

Yes I saw that too! I think it’s why the example sprang to mind!

Social media, and the kind of porn typically viewed by women, would suggest that many, many women absolutely do look at men's bodies in exactly the same way that men look at women's bodies.

I definitely do, and I can tell from the kind of following that certain male models/influencers/celebrities have on social media that plenty of other women do as well.

There is also a big market for NSFW fan art featuring male characters from popular romance / fantasy books etc naked, often in very explicit poses/situations.

Some of the most popular porn videos watched by women are basically videos of hot men wanking, often without the man's face even being in view. Women are not watching those videos thinking 'Oh, he seems nice/funny/clever/charismatic'. They are watching them because they want to see a man with a great body touching his cock.

Personally, I think the notion that women don't/aren't supposed to lust after or objectify men is all part of a fundamentally puritanical and anti-feminist notion that women aren't sexual beings in the same way that men are. It's the same mindset that judges promiscuous women differently from promiscuous men.

That isn't to say that women aren't also attracted by qualities other than looks - of course they are. But so are men. There is a difference for both men and women between looking for a relationship and having your head turned by someone good-looking in the street.

I definitely notice a good looking (to me) man. My type tends to be tall, lots of muscles, maybe some tattoos. I dont think anything specific just...I like the way they look. My husband knows my type so always clocks to see if I've noticed them and laughs at me

Gross.. how do you put up with that!

But isn't there is a difference in appreciating beauty in both males and females though and wanting sex with them based on one or two physical attributes....?

I can look at a man (or woman, I'm bisexual) and note that they're attractive, but I don't imagine sleeping with them or start lusting after them. It's more an acknowledgement that they're good looking. That said, I do have a few celebrity crushes (ahhh, Alan Rickman! 🤣) but if I'd found out they were raging Tories or racist or just a bit thick, I'd immediately go off them.

The only two times in my life I've been genuinely bowled over by someone's looks were meeting my DH (though I knew of him, and he was clutching a violin - swoon) and meeting my ex girlfriend (random meeting in a card shop!). But even then, it wasn't a case of "phwoar!", it was more a case of "oh wow, he/she is beautiful!", and I felt flustered and had butterflies in my stomach. I wasn't letching over them.

The real attraction kicked in after a conversation, though. I wouldn't have even considered wanting to sleep with either of them if they'd opened their mouths and sounded like they belonged in Love Island or something. Weirdly, when I have celebrity crushes they also tend to focus on the character they're playing in a film as opposed to the actual actor. Not always, but often.

Fictional characters I will happily swoon over all day long! But that's another ramble entirely and I've only had two coffees.

You're not being unreasonable and I've had a similiar conversation with my husband (20 years ago!) about why I had such an issue with him going to strip clubs (he has been and I don't control it but I did explain why it upset me).

My experience has been that he can be turned on / ready to go just by looking - he is visually stimulated.

For myself, I am not, I find touch, attention (dare I say it - conversation) etc far more arousing.

This is my experience and I believe there is a reason why there aren't equivalents to page 3 / strip clubs for women and why pornh*b has content for women that is much more 'story' based / rom novels etc exist.

I can absolutely appreciate a man's physique but I don't feel in the same 'immediate' way my husband can appreciate a women's.

All that being said - that doesn't mean you should stop him from looking (or you stop fantasizing!).

Exactly this. It’s very rare unless he is rich.

The difference is more likely to be in what a woman does after the eying up bit, versus a man. A man is more likely to make a comment to his mates or even to the woman herself. A woman is more likely to think 'sexy bloke' but do absolutely nothing and probably forget about it two minutes later.