Too harsh on ND child?

[itscoldplay]

DS ADHD (and dyspraxia. Also likely ASD, but it’s his ADHD behind most of the challenging behaviours).

He’s 10, and just really hard work on the weekend especially when not medicated. Constant negativity when he doesn’t get his own way. Zero frustration tolerance. But what DH and I find most infuriating is the wind up behaviour, the back chat and rudeness.

Do you let some things like that go? The pestering siblings for example? Tonight DS, DD and I watching TV, cuddled up. He bothers DD, so I move to sit in between. He bothers her again, I send him out of the room for 5 minutes. He bothers her the third time, he is sent straight for his shower and bed. Cue major anger which for him means constant back chat, refusal to let anyone else have the last word, aggressive behaviours (I don’t think he would ever really hurt us but he will test the waters by gently pushing me or DH). “Shush”ing us constantly when we’re speaking, really disrespectful stuff. Eventually he is sobbing, saying he has a headache. No remorse in these scenarios typically (he is much better behaved at school and will always be remorseful if he does wrong, same with friends).

We try our best to keep our cool but it does end up in taking away tech for 1 week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks because he doesn’t stop even when told. That’s what he was sobbing about tonight, he’s now lost his iPad for 2 weeks.

No, no no, you haven’t a clue. You don’t have ADHD, you don’t have ND kids. The way you discipline a NT kid can be abusive to a ND kid.

The OP has not been doing good parenting at all for a prepubescent child with poorly medicated ADHD.

Please stop with the harmful kudos and implying that using ND parenting techniques would result in the boy being a murderer by age 13. There was no other reason to mention Adolescebce except to imply that and put the fear of that extremity in the heads of readers and the OP.

The OP needs to do better. She is letting down and tearing down a vulnerable child for behaviours he cannot control.

@MJBear
OP you may find a parenting toolkit course with ADHD Wise helpful.

Good shout. Highly recommend.

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice I actually do have ADHD. You have absolutely no right to comment on others’ diagnoses or situations in life. You are not the arbiter of what is abusive or not. It’s disgusting that you think you have the right to judge OP over her responsible, safe and wise parenting. I’m honestly embarrassed for you.

Well neither is cheering it on while saying got to do tough love so he doesn’t stab a girl to death in a car park when he’s 13 fear mongering.

Adolescence btw did NOT show that parents need to do the type of strict, shouty, name calling & derogatory parenting you are advocating. In fact, it showed the dangers of authoritarian, emotionally distant, & too critical parenting. It showed the dangers of if the kid isn’t in trouble and gets good grades, then who cares if he’s up until 2am online on the computer in his room? The parents made the mistake of thinking he is safe and ok. They did not make time to actually talk to him about SM bullying or to teach him online safety or to ensure he doesn’t get groomed/brainwashed by online incels.

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice I have never suggested derogatory parenting nor suggested OP’s child is akin to the one in Adolescence. This is something you are inventing.

How convenient. Neither are you the arbiter of what is abusive or not. What we have here is a difference of opinion. So just leave it and agree to disagree.

Rudeness and backchat at that age is normal whether Neurodivergent or not, the way you deal with it is important. Two weeks removal of the iPad is harsh, if your constantly praising your daughter and having a go at him all the time how do you think that is going to make him feel?

You most certainly did imply/suggest to me that the OP’s boy would turn into a murderer by age 13:

The worst thing she can possibly do is not be direct with him about bad behaviours. Have you not watched “Adolescence”? Boys need to learn not to be entitled from a young age; that’s incredibly important and it’s the same regardless of neurotype. If anything a ND child needs to a more explicit and direct conversation.

Cheering on a mum saying what she has said to her DS is de facto advocating derogatory parenting.

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice …um, no I didn’t and I’ve already explained to you very clearly how you’re misreading my point. So at this juncture, it’s not a mistake, it’s a choice. I’ve said about five times that I’m saying the parenting here is not like the show and that that’s a good thing. You are the one who is trying to twist my words to mean the opposite. All through the thread I have been saying OP is a good parent.

I agree with the other posters that long term consequences especially for behaviour that he probably can't control is largely pointless.

I think it can be very easy to slip into a pattern where you want him to acknowledge his behavior is the problem but he is too angry/ upset / triggered /dysregulated to be in the slightest bit rationa.. With DS I have to try to focus on the original issue - eg hassling his sister - then give him consequences for that and then ignore all the rest. I do worry that's not helpful long term as he'll have to learn to self regulate - and arguably, DH did NOT learn and as a result has had some problems as an adult - but I'm also trying to take an age appropriate approach. DS is now 14 so I'm shifting a bit how we handle things.

I would say that find the exercise and activities during the week at school really help that you should consider trying to up that on weekends . A lot of what you describe I see very much with my nephew has never really had enough of the physical activity that he clearly needs and craves and without a doubt his behavior is often worse as a result. This was particularly obvious when he was a toddler and a bit older than toddler.

I would recommend some more hardcore exercise or activity on the weekends. Formal or informal. It can be difficult though, I know. DS got more freedom than some other kids simply because getting out and about was so good for him. He also got signed up to an activity that was 90 minutes starting quite early on Saturdays. He'd come out like a starving wolf and I'd have to feed him something substantial on the way home but it really helped to regulate him the rest of the day.

You chose to characterise the parenting many of us with ND kids and who are ND as akin to the parenting on the show- which it is not at all. There was no need to fear monger like that as the situations are not even remotely comparable.

The OP’s parenting is different from the benign neglect shown on the show with a NT 13yo boy but that doesn’t make her actions good parenting for a ND 10yo by a long shot.

Yes you have been saying the OP is a good parent and if anything needs to be more explicit/harsh. That’s not good advice and not good parenting, in my opinion.

How do you know this person is not Neurodivergent?

Op as a matter of interest why is your child not medicated at the weekend and what do you actually do with him over the weekend? Does he get lots of exercise?

Good point, I just couldn’t believe a person who says they have ADHD would be so severely lacking in understanding on the needs of a child with ADHD. After all, they’d have been a child with ADHD if they have it.

Edit: they claimed they have ADHD after I presumed they did not.

But everyone has different experiences and severity and everyone deals with things differently you can't just come on here and say that it's not a one size fits all.

@Oioisavaloy27 I had actually said I was ND multiple times earlier in this thread! I prefer not to speak about specific diagnoses usually as I don’t think it’s that helpful to focus on as an adult (different for children and during the diagnostic process). The other poster really needs to check her assumptions and stop attacking people who don’t agree with her.

Ahhh, and now I see they are implying I must be lying. Typical.

You have to parent ND children carefully. Obviously he can't be allowed to be an active threat to his sister, but that's not what we are talking about here - it is about the wisdom of using punitive methods on a struggling child who needs more scaffolding than the average child.

Some of us are suggesting ways to provide that scaffolding. Shouting it down on the basis he's going to turn into a murderer or similar in a few years is not helpful.

I have two adult adopted children. Adopters often find they are parenting children with incredibly challenging behaviours and for the last 25 years or so the adoption community has been heavily involved in finding strategies that work. Most adopters I know have had to completely change their natural parenting style to accommodate the Nero divergence, special educational needs, trauma etc they are dealing with.

And I can tell you that shouting, punishing, time out etc is not recommended. Firm boundaries are in but in a loving way.

And any parenting course will say much the same.

Look at NVR, for example, which is becoming increasingly popular. You choose your battles, learn how to keep a child regulated, how to de-escalate, how to stay calm calm yourself, how to use conciliatory gestures. But it also includes firm boundaries.

Imo the main thing with kids like this is not to focus on the punishment after the event but to stop the event in the first place. That's where sensory strategies come in - lots of active play, hard pressure activities, use of snacks (find out if crunching, chewing, licking, sucking helps your child and choose snacks accordingly). And parenting support for the parents like a parenting course or even just seeing a counsellor.

Shouting and punishing just leaves the child to deal with the too-big feelings all on their own. They can't do it and it will continue.

My daughters have grown up to be able to self regulate - the gold standard for adult behaviour - but that wouldn't have happened if I hadn't helped them.

This is not soft parenting btw but it is highly engaged parenting, which takes a huge amount of effort. So much easier to scream at a kid and send them to their room for half am hour than to have planned a physical activity and monitored your children's interactions and intervened at the first sign of trouble with a redirection.

Also I know Neurodivergent parents who are so strict that their children are scared to breathe and watching those children being crushed is awful.

@Arran2024 Saying that OP is a good parent for being direct and challenging entitled male behaviour is not claiming he’s going to “turn into a murderer”.

I would be more interested in your perspective if you could respond to mine without twisting my words.

Yes, and I mistakenly presumed that a person with ND would know that and, in my opinion, not be saying the OP wasn’t being harsh enough and cheering on a parenting style that is known to be abusive to children with poorly medicated severe ADHD.

I forgot you can have a ND and also lack insight and education into your own condition and how it can affect others more severely than you.

Says the poster who started out by calling me ridiculous.

You are right de escalation techniques are worth their weight in gold.

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice Wow, you really hate to be challenged on your narrative that OP is abusive, don’t you? This whole thing comes from this. If you actually reviewed my comments, you’d see I have never said “be more harsh”. Not once. Not even one time.

That is something you invented. Just like you invented the idea that I said OP’s child is like the child in Adolescence, when actually I said that boys need direct parenting and referred to a recent pop culture example.

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice You think that implying I must be lying about being neurodiverse and repeatedly insisting that I compared OP’s actual real life child to a murderer is the same as… finding it ridiculous that you think normal, sensible parenting is abusive? Sure, sure.