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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Too harsh on ND child?

234 replies

itscoldplay · 16/03/2025 21:18

DS ADHD (and dyspraxia. Also likely ASD, but it’s his ADHD behind most of the challenging behaviours).

He’s 10, and just really hard work on the weekend especially when not medicated. Constant negativity when he doesn’t get his own way. Zero frustration tolerance. But what DH and I find most infuriating is the wind up behaviour, the back chat and rudeness.

Do you let some things like that go? The pestering siblings for example? Tonight DS, DD and I watching TV, cuddled up. He bothers DD, so I move to sit in between. He bothers her again, I send him out of the room for 5 minutes. He bothers her the third time, he is sent straight for his shower and bed. Cue major anger which for him means constant back chat, refusal to let anyone else have the last word, aggressive behaviours (I don’t think he would ever really hurt us but he will test the waters by gently pushing me or DH). “Shush”ing us constantly when we’re speaking, really disrespectful stuff. Eventually he is sobbing, saying he has a headache. No remorse in these scenarios typically (he is much better behaved at school and will always be remorseful if he does wrong, same with friends).

We try our best to keep our cool but it does end up in taking away tech for 1 week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks because he doesn’t stop even when told. That’s what he was sobbing about tonight, he’s now lost his iPad for 2 weeks.

OP posts:
verysmellyjelly · 18/03/2025 11:15

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice Also I said “calling this abusive is absolutely ludicrous” which is a comment on your post, and not on you as a person. What I might think of you following all your additional posts is another matter, but my first reply didn’t even call you ridiculous!

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 18/03/2025 11:15

verysmellyjelly · 18/03/2025 11:09

@Arran2024 Saying that OP is a good parent for being direct and challenging entitled male behaviour is not claiming he’s going to “turn into a murderer”.

I would be more interested in your perspective if you could respond to mine without twisting my words.

The OP’s DS wasn’t/isnt showing “entitled male behaviour” though. It sounds to me like you watched the show Adolescence and are now unfairly projecting the 13yo NT male character onto the OP’s DS.

verysmellyjelly · 18/03/2025 11:16

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice I never said OP’s son was showing entitled male behaviour. Again, hard to know if you’re struggling to parse what’s being said or maliciously twisting my words.

Why would I say that OP’s son is showing especially problematic behaviour when I’m the one who thinks she’s parenting well? My entire point is that I think she is doing a good job.

Commonsense22 · 18/03/2025 11:21

I think you're doing great OP. It's really hard for you but so important not to excuse poor behaviour because of ND.
It takes a lot of perseverance but you're doing the right thing.

Have you also got rewards for good behaviour? My friend with ND children starts from a basis of 0 screen time and they earn it through good behaviour. It seems to work well for them.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 18/03/2025 11:21

verysmellyjelly · 18/03/2025 11:15

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice Also I said “calling this abusive is absolutely ludicrous” which is a comment on your post, and not on you as a person. What I might think of you following all your additional posts is another matter, but my first reply didn’t even call you ridiculous!

Yes, well I have ADHD so I have difficulty recalling exact words verbatim over the general gist. It seems a bit nit picky for you to imply that ridiculous is substantively different from ludicrous though. And having ADHD, we do tend to sensitive to people using such harsh criticisms of our opinions and feel it includes an attack on the personal level too. A pp posted a great statistic and study on how rejection sensitivity is rooted in parenting you call “good parenting” whereby ADHD kids are criticised too often and too harshly.

Again, that lack of understanding about a condition you have. Did you just get diagnosed or something? That would explain a lot.

Yellowsunbeams · 18/03/2025 11:22

ASD and ADHD children react better if there is a "treat" they are hoping to get rather than being punished after the fact. Those punishments usually trigger in my experience an unpleasant meltdown. There are some things I'd let go or you just run out of punishments. Have you tried talking to him in a calm moment about how disappointed you are when he misbehaves like this? Explaining to him how this sort of thing will hold him back from achieving things and having friends etc. I think you do have to tackle the pushing quite strongly. You do not want to be facing off with him when he's a six foot teenager.

I always told my ASD/ADHD son that the world wouldn't bend for him and he'd have to bend for the world. I also think it's important to compliment your child on good things they do rather than always being critical. I admit at times it was hard to think of something and I was once reduced to saying he was very good at finding the fastest, shortest supermarket check out queue. Strangely he was quite proud of that and always insisted on choosing the supermarket queue.

I did find some outdoor exercise was good. An hour or two on a horse kept him focussed because the horse certainly isn't going to be making allowances for ADHD if he wasn't riding it properly. But even just a walk round a park can be helpful.

Is he keeping up at school? If not, think about some extra tutoring. It is absolutely miserable to be left behind and struggling. One of my children was effortlessly brilliant and the other had a real struggle. The struggler had a lot of extra tutoring and support. He said the extra work was worth it not to be struggling in class all the time and being able to pass his exams. He has a reasonable university degree and is currently doing a post graduate diploma for a vocational qualification. We did medicate but more for him to concentrate on studying than behaviour modification. It might be a possibility for you though for behaviour.

A lot of children do discover coping mechanisms when they get older. To do lists, wall planners, always putting their keys in the same place, working with only the relevant papers on their desk etc. They learn a few more social graces. My son just naturally stopped jumping up and down on the spot like Tigger as he got older.

Oioisavaloy27 · 18/03/2025 11:22

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice Also you would be surprised at the number of Neurodivergent parents that don't know how to parent their children because they have not been taught.

verysmellyjelly · 18/03/2025 11:24

At this point I’m not prepared to engage with you further, @SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice. Despite your claims that others are abusive, it’s very clear that you are the one gaslighting and attempting to twist the narrative even in this one thread to suit you. Claiming to know who is and isn’t ND based on whether they agree with you; implying that someone must be lying if you don’t think their diagnosis is good enough; repeatedly intentionally twisting my point about Adolescence so that you can make a cruel comparison to the OP’s child… I think it’s very clear whose behaviour year merits criticism.

I’ve reported most of your posts but I’m not at all surprised MNHQ is doing nothing about it; their record on reacting to malicious attacks on disabled people like me is abysmal. I only report about a quarter of the attacks I receive and I expect 99% of them to go undeleted. I’m only mentioning this so that anyone else reading the thread knows that I did make reports and wasn’t just allowing these comments to stand unchallenged (including the many where SugarandSpice made such callous and cruel comparisons, and repeatedly called OP abusive with no foundation).

It’s too stressful for me to engage with a gaslighter like this so I won’t be responding to your unpleasantness any further, and will leave other readers of the thread to judge for themselves. To be clear, all I have ever tried to contribute was encouragement for the OP in helping her DS acquire skills to function in the world as well as possible, because I have found that so hard as a multiply disabled (physically and with ND) adult. I deeply believe that it hurts ND children not to bring them up with these skills and leaves them lonelier and less integrated as adults. I also think all kids deserve to be told the truth in a direct and honest way, especially if they are hurting or affecting others. Yes, including ND kids. Calling this abusive is just outrageous imo. That’s all I have to say.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 18/03/2025 11:29

verysmellyjelly · 18/03/2025 11:16

@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice I never said OP’s son was showing entitled male behaviour. Again, hard to know if you’re struggling to parse what’s being said or maliciously twisting my words.

Why would I say that OP’s son is showing especially problematic behaviour when I’m the one who thinks she’s parenting well? My entire point is that I think she is doing a good job.

You connected her parenting to preventing ‘entitled male behaviour” and threw in there the show Adolescence to make the point that harsh parenting prevents your child becoming a murderer.

Studies show the opposite to be true.

Your opinion is her parenting is good and if anything she needs to be more strict and harsh.

I got it, you disagree with me, you’ve made that clear from your very first interaction with me, you couldn’t tolerate my difference of opinion being on the thread, you had to reply to me and kick off this shit show,

Lets just leave it here.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 18/03/2025 11:33

Oioisavaloy27 · 18/03/2025 11:22

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice Also you would be surprised at the number of Neurodivergent parents that don't know how to parent their children because they have not been taught.

I am seeing that right now. I should have realised it sooner, after all my parents didn’t do a good job with me and now I am older I am wondering if they had undiagnosed ND.

BertieBotts · 18/03/2025 11:52

I definitely have to limit tech for my ADHD kids because they have no sense of reasonable limits. However, I agree with those saying don't keep escalating punishments - I have some other suggestions which I'll add later.

First of all: I would honestly speak to the doctor about the risks/benefits of medicating at the weekend - and don't forget to consider the risks/benefits of NOT medicating, because the effect on your relationship and his self esteem is no small thing, IMO. Also, he is going to be entering puberty soon. ADHD boys and puberty can be a bit of an explosive combo. (Not always - it doesn't seem to be for my eldest). Medication is helpful in mitigating risk taking behaviour and impulsive, haven't-thought-of-the-consequences type behaviour. At ten as well, you might want to ask him what he thinks, whether he would prefer to take it every day.

I am an adult and take medication every day. I have ADHD every day and I need the medication every day. Not everyone needs breaks to keep it effective - TBH, I find that if I take a break when I get a cold or something, so maybe 2-3 times a year, which makes sense to me because I just want to rest and sleep on those days anyway, then it's enough. In fact it is highly individual as well - some people find that the days they don't take medication, they retain some residual effect (perhaps from not being exhausted/burnt out from trying to deal with life without enough executive functioning). But some people find that the days they don't take medication, the symptoms come back almost worse in a kind of rebound effect, like someone trying to quit smoking is grumpy and short tempered on the first couple of days not only because of withdrawal, but also because their brain is expecting the nicotine to make the extra dopamine for them. This seems to be the case for me (when I've had a day off for other reasons e.g. supply shortages)

If you're getting a resurgence of symptoms, especially extra-hyper or extra-grumpy in the evenings as the medication wears off, this could be what they call stimulant rebound and again talk to the doctor about this because you can mitigate it a bit e.g. by giving a very small booster dose to sort of taper off the medication as it runs out rather than it all leaving his body at once and leaving him with a total lack of dopamine (I think that's a bit oversimplified, but it was how it was explained to me). The other thing you can do is try to counter this with some sugary food or drink.

90% of ADHD parenting IME is mood management and being proactive in order that you NOT react in the moment, because they can so very easily get into a state where they're sort of exuding this force and it will wind you up if you're not careful. Because once you get into this pattern you're just escalating each other, this is highly rewarding (even though that seems counter-intuitive because it feels horrible/stressful and often ends up with an out of proportion punishment). Brain chemistry wise, it is HIGHLY rewarding and the more you get into this pattern the more you will see it, and it will get more and more explosive. He likely cannot break the pattern - you have to be the adults and do that.

So in terms of how to make that happen - a mixture of things.

Understanding ADHD - I haven't read a lot of books aimed at parents understanding their ADHD kids, because I was diagnosed first, but Sarah Templeton's book How Not To Murder Your ADHD Kid is excellent - if the title makes you chuckle. If the title makes you roll your eyes or feel faintly horrified, it might not be the right book for you. But it's very good especially as a starting point, explaining the reasoning behind a lot of common behaviours and offering a couple of strategies for each. Honestly, although there wasn't a lot new here for me, it was a helpful reminder and I do use some of the things she suggests in here. (If you don't think it's the book for you and/or in addition, maybe look at Russell Barkley's 12 Principles book, as I remember he described this as he spent lockdown distilling his life's work into the most important, clear points that he could, and his talks have always been very helpful for me.)

ADHD Dude and Seth Perler and Russell Barkley's videos online are all really good as well.

Structure your discipline system and make it MUCH clearer and more predictable, and heavily skewed towards rewarding preferred behaviour rather than punishing unwanted behaviour. What that means is that rather than react in the moment to behaviour that you don't like or when you feel like you're losing a power struggle you pull the parent card and enact a ban, you want to sit down with DH and decide on some specific behaviours to work on, clarify between you what exactly it means (e.g. don't use something vague like "being cheeky", but specify words, actions, tone of voice etc - though Sarah reckons tone is really difficult to police because they don't realise they are doing it and so could be unfair). If there's something you currently tend to take away as punishment, flip this and get him to earn the thing back with positive behaviour instead. So for example, if he's normally allowed up to 1 hour of screen time a day, break the day into 6 sections and for each section, if he can manage to avoid the unwanted behaviour he can earn 15 minutes of screen time. Don't expect perfection as you are working on changing habits, and start at a point where it's achievable for him to get at least some of them.

There is a really excellent free course on Coursera called The ABCs of Everyday Parenting which goes into how to work out the positive opposite behaviour to encourage rather than a negative to discourage, how to work towards behaviours you're a long way from, how to use rewards type schemes and other acknowledgements like praise in the most effective way. It also has a short section on consequences. It's very good and it's similar to the kinds of parent training which are effective in ADHD.

For behaviours you're not currently working on, it helps to just deal with them neutrally - either ignore or redirect or de-escalate while keeping everyone safe as much as possible. But IME having a behaviour system like above can also help take conflict away from in-the-moment behaviour.

Understanding regulation and how to judge your child's mood/mental state can help a lot too - this is a bit of a bugbear at the moment because the word regulation is everywhere and most people using it aren't really understanding the proper definition, they are sort of using it as a kind of shorthand to mean "my child is calm [regulated] vs agitated [dysregulated]" - which is sort of right but it's a bit more complicated in reality. I won't go into the full explanation here but I would recommend the book Big Baffling Behaviours by Robyn Gobbel as I really like her animal "brain" metaphor and I find her descriptions of how to recognise each "level" of dysregulation and what to do at each state to be extremely helpful. The other thing to look at here is sensory input - find out what types of sensory input help your child to regulate and what they might be seeking especially with hyperactive type behaviour. This I've found difficult to find good cohesive info in one place, but I've read some helpful things on The OT Butterfly and Occuplaytional Therapist. I think OT would be useful for this but I don't know how easy it is to access. I get the sense that understanding sensory input can help when you have a child for whom "get their energy out" is unpredictable or doesn't work at all.

But sometimes this can also be as simple as the fact that ADHD children often don't pay very good attention to their own bodies so they don't notice easily if they are hungry, thirsty, need the toilet, tired, hot/cold etc. He might seem to be a bit old to have to prompt these things but think about whether any of them might be an issue and if so, try prompting or offering so that they are happening regularly. I often find with my 6yo if he's suddenly in an antagonistic mood it's because he needs the toilet and has been ignoring it for ages.

Bloodybrambles · 18/03/2025 11:54

I am ADHD. I come from a huge family with a lot of undiagnosed ND. Mum was extra strict with us kids as she said we needed to learn to respect boundaries/rules or we’d end up in prison.

None of us kids ever had a run in with the law. My cousins on the other hand…

There’s a 50/50 chance my kids will have ADHD. I’ll also be taking no nonsense too. No means no. Break the rules, feel the consequences.

How are these kids expected to function in society/work/life if they cannot grasp the concept of no.

Next there’s going to be a wave of mummies defending their son’s rape convictions of ‘it’s not his fault, he doesn’t understand consequences/being told no, she should have redirected his impulses’.

Give an ADHD kid/adult a 1% chance of being able to move a boundary/get out of consequences and they will.

Notagreatresult · 18/03/2025 12:42

Well, we’ll see how you get on @Bloodybrambles. You may find you change you mind about the best parenting strategies when you’re actually parenting a ND child.

Nobody is saying you can’t say no to a ND child btw. It how you say it that changes, that’s all.

Mulledjuice · 18/03/2025 12:50

Tonight DS, DD and I watching TV, cuddled up. He bothers DD, so I move to sit in between. He bothers her again, I send him out of the room for 5 minutes. He bothers her the third time, he is sent straight for his shower and bed.

He's bored watching TV/finding it hard to sit still. I have adhd and often find "sitting cuddled up" watching TV to be frustrating for me and the person I'm cuddled up with. Has he got a fidget toy or foot roller or something he can play with. Has he got enough space to sit in. Does he want to sit and watch TV, has he moved around enough that day?

Is there something he could self-regulate with - an old game boy with tetris loaded, a book of sudoku, etc? (I sometimes find washing or tidying up helps inadvertently but hard to sell to a child/teen)

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 18/03/2025 12:59

Really well written post with lots of good resources and advice @BertieBotts
Also great point on the challenge of cuddling and watching TV @Mulledjuice

Haveyouanyjam · 18/03/2025 12:59

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 18/03/2025 11:33

I am seeing that right now. I should have realised it sooner, after all my parents didn’t do a good job with me and now I am older I am wondering if they had undiagnosed ND.

I would say that maybe some self reflection about the dopamine hit you’re getting arguing with strangers on the internet would explain some of your reactions here. You have an opinion, that fine, but you are being unnecessarily inflammatory with your responses and focus on OP’s behaviour being abusive. She is not abusing her son, she is struggling, and seeking advice to do better. Some things she is doing may well have a negative impact on her child but she is not an abusive parent.

There’s lots of good advice on this thread. Medication isn’t a straightforward issue as comes with side effects however you take it. They will depend on what is best for the child and that is for the clinician to decide in discussion with the child and parents.

Yes we need to be kind to our children, but we also need to be honest. My child with ADHD is desperate to be liked but often behaves in ways that don’t help this. For example, he will go round telling other children they shouldn’t do things or telling on them for minor behaviours simply because he doesn’t think they should do it/that he would be told off for doing them. Such as using minor swear words in casual conversation (not swearing at him or anyone else) and I have had to explain that he is not a parent or a teacher, it’s not his place to police other children if they are not harming anyone, and it will have an impact on him socially if he’s constantly trying to tell people what to do (he gets a hit from this). He is a complex child to parent as he has been through a lot of trauma. I am conscious to say things kindly and calmly but if I tell him something he doesn’t want to hear, especially about himself, he is immediately angry. Should I therefore pretend his behaviour is perfect? No, and we must consider how to approach things, but we have to address behaviour that could get us in situations we don’t want to be in in future.

Haveyouanyjam · 18/03/2025 13:04

@BertieBotts great post

@Mulledjuice this is a good point and may help for some. Interestingly my child gets more worked up with fidget toys as he can’t stop himself from using it and tends to get more hyped rather than not. He would never voluntarily choose to stop watching TV so when I see him hanging upside down on the sofa I tell him it’s time to do something active and he can watch something later (we only do limited TV and no other screen time as that really works for him anyway)

Agree hard with the poster who said about treating kids like dogs in terms of exercise! Wear them out they will feel much better. As much time outdoors playing and problem solving as possible.

DrCoconut · 18/03/2025 13:17

Google at peace parents if you haven’t already seen it. It’s a game changer

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 18/03/2025 13:21

@Haveyouanyjam
In response to your comment towards me:
I would say that maybe some self reflection about the dopamine hit you’re getting arguing with strangers on the internet would explain some of your reactions here. I argued with 1 stranger, and I didn’t initiate it. I went back through the thread and it seems they came on and did a series of posts objecting in the strongest terms to several others’ opinions as well as mine. Things got way out of hand and while I was overly defensive, I admitted it, whereas they have called me gaslighter, cruel, callous, malicious,..

She is not abusing her son, she is struggling, and seeking advice to do better. Some things she is doing may well have a negative impact on her child but she is not an abusive parent.
I think some of her punishments and treatment of her DS have crossed over the line into abuse and are therefore too harsh. The AIBU? Asks if she is being too harsh on an ND child. I think she is.

I am conscious to say things kindly and calmly…
The OP’s posts chronicling how she treats her child shows alot of unkindness and shouting in a rage. Should we therefore pretend OP’s behaviour & parenting is perfect? No. Especially since she is asking for honest feedback on whether she is being too harsh. If a person slips into abusive behaviours, recognises them for being abusive and then takes steps to correct things, then they are not an abusive parent. The danger with not calling out abusive behaviours for what they are when they happen and instead validating and praising them as “good parenting” is that a person would then repeat them.

Arran2024 · 18/03/2025 13:28

I would like to add that kids with challenging behaviours benefit from all sorts of support. It is all about finding what works for you.

Some of us have mentioned sensory / OT type support and that would be my first go to here. The Out of Synch Child book is worth a read but seeing a sensory integration therapist would be ideal.

Secondly the meds. Some kids really need them.

Thirdly, a parenting course for the parents and possibly some counselling or therapy for them to reflect on their own childhoods and what they are playing out unnecessarily with their children.

Fourthly, a speech and language assessment. Most people have no idea what speech and language problems look like. It's not just about pronouncing words but also about receptive language, picking up on what people are saying, that sort of thing. A lot of kids struggle with this and no one has a clue.

Fifthly using deescalation, motivation and reconciliation gestures instead of punishment and zero shouting.

Finally parents understanding that this is going to require hands on time and effort from them for a while. Not just shouting and a time out. I'm always surprised when people mock therapeutic parenting (or whatever you want to call it) as being soft because, done properly, it isn't soft at all. It is demanding for the child to have to learn to stay calm - so much easier to lash out then sit in your room on your own. This is tough!

Btw not here, but in the US, people send their kids to wilderness camps, which use harsh techniques - the parents don't even get involved for months on end. And the results are not great. And it appeals to parents who want their child fixed but with no effort on their part. We don't have that option here but you can see that it is part of the "teach them to behave" line of thinking which imo just doesn't work on any level.

Haveyouanyjam · 18/03/2025 13:40

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 18/03/2025 13:21

@Haveyouanyjam
In response to your comment towards me:
I would say that maybe some self reflection about the dopamine hit you’re getting arguing with strangers on the internet would explain some of your reactions here. I argued with 1 stranger, and I didn’t initiate it. I went back through the thread and it seems they came on and did a series of posts objecting in the strongest terms to several others’ opinions as well as mine. Things got way out of hand and while I was overly defensive, I admitted it, whereas they have called me gaslighter, cruel, callous, malicious,..

She is not abusing her son, she is struggling, and seeking advice to do better. Some things she is doing may well have a negative impact on her child but she is not an abusive parent.
I think some of her punishments and treatment of her DS have crossed over the line into abuse and are therefore too harsh. The AIBU? Asks if she is being too harsh on an ND child. I think she is.

I am conscious to say things kindly and calmly…
The OP’s posts chronicling how she treats her child shows alot of unkindness and shouting in a rage. Should we therefore pretend OP’s behaviour & parenting is perfect? No. Especially since she is asking for honest feedback on whether she is being too harsh. If a person slips into abusive behaviours, recognises them for being abusive and then takes steps to correct things, then they are not an abusive parent. The danger with not calling out abusive behaviours for what they are when they happen and instead validating and praising them as “good parenting” is that a person would then repeat them.

Edited

I have in no way suggested that OP’s parenting is perfect but there is a large spectrum between perfect and abuse. If she had told her son his friends didn’t like him because he’s a nasty little shit, then that would be abuse. She may have been too harsh and is clearly losing her patience at times which isn’t great (though I’m sure we all have). However, in my experience, people who wonder what they could do better and try to understand their child whilst being honest about the times they messed up, are not abusive.

You may not agree, that’s fine, but to me, abuse has an element of cruelty to it, or at least a wilful ignorance of the impact of the behaviour. You can acknowledge poor behaviour that isn’t abusive behaviour, both exist.

It is a hard balance to strike to maintain your authority with an ADHD child who gets brain rewards from conflict and unconsciously wants to control the situation to keep getting those rewards, whilst staying calm and kind. It takes a lot of practice and effort.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 18/03/2025 14:06

Haveyouanyjam · 18/03/2025 13:40

I have in no way suggested that OP’s parenting is perfect but there is a large spectrum between perfect and abuse. If she had told her son his friends didn’t like him because he’s a nasty little shit, then that would be abuse. She may have been too harsh and is clearly losing her patience at times which isn’t great (though I’m sure we all have). However, in my experience, people who wonder what they could do better and try to understand their child whilst being honest about the times they messed up, are not abusive.

You may not agree, that’s fine, but to me, abuse has an element of cruelty to it, or at least a wilful ignorance of the impact of the behaviour. You can acknowledge poor behaviour that isn’t abusive behaviour, both exist.

It is a hard balance to strike to maintain your authority with an ADHD child who gets brain rewards from conflict and unconsciously wants to control the situation to keep getting those rewards, whilst staying calm and kind. It takes a lot of practice and effort.

I have in no way suggested that OP’s parenting is perfect but there is a large spectrum between perfect and abuse.

Sorry, you brought up who I was arguing with and I was telling you that I don’t think it was right for them to praise the OP’s parenting as “good parenting”. I wasn’t implying you had said, it was highlighting that yes while we can’t pretend the child is perfect, we also can’t pretend the parent is perfect. I understand you think the cruelty and shouting are less than ideal but not abusive. I think it is. That’s ok to have a difference of opinion and it’s ok for me to have commented on OP’s parenting because she directly asked “am I being too harsh?”

It is a hard balance to strike to maintain your authority with an ADHD child who gets brain rewards from conflict and unconsciously wants to control the situation to keep getting those rewards, whilst staying calm and kind. It takes a lot of practice and effort.

ADHD doesn’t mean you get “brain rewards” from conflict nor seek more conflict to keep getting those brain rewards, that is a huge misunderstanding. If anything, we tend to be people pleasers anxious to behave well and when we get criticised, our emotional dysregulation and rejection sensitivity means we start spiralling…so the conflict can escalate. It is hard, I agree with you there, but it hard on everyone and there are no rewards for the ADHD sufferer.

Editing to add I am glad we are having a calm discussion ;)

Notagreatresult · 18/03/2025 14:50

I must say I am learning so much from this thread. It’s an on-going process isn’t it? I have taken note of all the books and online resources. Thanks to everybody for all their recommendations, so helpful for everyone I think. I’ve always found that the strategies for ND children work well with NT children too though they mightn’t need them as much. I have both. My ND child has autism as well as adhd, but for us ocd is the biggest challenge.

Sunat45degrees · 18/03/2025 15:00

BertieBotts · 18/03/2025 11:52

I definitely have to limit tech for my ADHD kids because they have no sense of reasonable limits. However, I agree with those saying don't keep escalating punishments - I have some other suggestions which I'll add later.

First of all: I would honestly speak to the doctor about the risks/benefits of medicating at the weekend - and don't forget to consider the risks/benefits of NOT medicating, because the effect on your relationship and his self esteem is no small thing, IMO. Also, he is going to be entering puberty soon. ADHD boys and puberty can be a bit of an explosive combo. (Not always - it doesn't seem to be for my eldest). Medication is helpful in mitigating risk taking behaviour and impulsive, haven't-thought-of-the-consequences type behaviour. At ten as well, you might want to ask him what he thinks, whether he would prefer to take it every day.

I am an adult and take medication every day. I have ADHD every day and I need the medication every day. Not everyone needs breaks to keep it effective - TBH, I find that if I take a break when I get a cold or something, so maybe 2-3 times a year, which makes sense to me because I just want to rest and sleep on those days anyway, then it's enough. In fact it is highly individual as well - some people find that the days they don't take medication, they retain some residual effect (perhaps from not being exhausted/burnt out from trying to deal with life without enough executive functioning). But some people find that the days they don't take medication, the symptoms come back almost worse in a kind of rebound effect, like someone trying to quit smoking is grumpy and short tempered on the first couple of days not only because of withdrawal, but also because their brain is expecting the nicotine to make the extra dopamine for them. This seems to be the case for me (when I've had a day off for other reasons e.g. supply shortages)

If you're getting a resurgence of symptoms, especially extra-hyper or extra-grumpy in the evenings as the medication wears off, this could be what they call stimulant rebound and again talk to the doctor about this because you can mitigate it a bit e.g. by giving a very small booster dose to sort of taper off the medication as it runs out rather than it all leaving his body at once and leaving him with a total lack of dopamine (I think that's a bit oversimplified, but it was how it was explained to me). The other thing you can do is try to counter this with some sugary food or drink.

90% of ADHD parenting IME is mood management and being proactive in order that you NOT react in the moment, because they can so very easily get into a state where they're sort of exuding this force and it will wind you up if you're not careful. Because once you get into this pattern you're just escalating each other, this is highly rewarding (even though that seems counter-intuitive because it feels horrible/stressful and often ends up with an out of proportion punishment). Brain chemistry wise, it is HIGHLY rewarding and the more you get into this pattern the more you will see it, and it will get more and more explosive. He likely cannot break the pattern - you have to be the adults and do that.

So in terms of how to make that happen - a mixture of things.

Understanding ADHD - I haven't read a lot of books aimed at parents understanding their ADHD kids, because I was diagnosed first, but Sarah Templeton's book How Not To Murder Your ADHD Kid is excellent - if the title makes you chuckle. If the title makes you roll your eyes or feel faintly horrified, it might not be the right book for you. But it's very good especially as a starting point, explaining the reasoning behind a lot of common behaviours and offering a couple of strategies for each. Honestly, although there wasn't a lot new here for me, it was a helpful reminder and I do use some of the things she suggests in here. (If you don't think it's the book for you and/or in addition, maybe look at Russell Barkley's 12 Principles book, as I remember he described this as he spent lockdown distilling his life's work into the most important, clear points that he could, and his talks have always been very helpful for me.)

ADHD Dude and Seth Perler and Russell Barkley's videos online are all really good as well.

Structure your discipline system and make it MUCH clearer and more predictable, and heavily skewed towards rewarding preferred behaviour rather than punishing unwanted behaviour. What that means is that rather than react in the moment to behaviour that you don't like or when you feel like you're losing a power struggle you pull the parent card and enact a ban, you want to sit down with DH and decide on some specific behaviours to work on, clarify between you what exactly it means (e.g. don't use something vague like "being cheeky", but specify words, actions, tone of voice etc - though Sarah reckons tone is really difficult to police because they don't realise they are doing it and so could be unfair). If there's something you currently tend to take away as punishment, flip this and get him to earn the thing back with positive behaviour instead. So for example, if he's normally allowed up to 1 hour of screen time a day, break the day into 6 sections and for each section, if he can manage to avoid the unwanted behaviour he can earn 15 minutes of screen time. Don't expect perfection as you are working on changing habits, and start at a point where it's achievable for him to get at least some of them.

There is a really excellent free course on Coursera called The ABCs of Everyday Parenting which goes into how to work out the positive opposite behaviour to encourage rather than a negative to discourage, how to work towards behaviours you're a long way from, how to use rewards type schemes and other acknowledgements like praise in the most effective way. It also has a short section on consequences. It's very good and it's similar to the kinds of parent training which are effective in ADHD.

For behaviours you're not currently working on, it helps to just deal with them neutrally - either ignore or redirect or de-escalate while keeping everyone safe as much as possible. But IME having a behaviour system like above can also help take conflict away from in-the-moment behaviour.

Understanding regulation and how to judge your child's mood/mental state can help a lot too - this is a bit of a bugbear at the moment because the word regulation is everywhere and most people using it aren't really understanding the proper definition, they are sort of using it as a kind of shorthand to mean "my child is calm [regulated] vs agitated [dysregulated]" - which is sort of right but it's a bit more complicated in reality. I won't go into the full explanation here but I would recommend the book Big Baffling Behaviours by Robyn Gobbel as I really like her animal "brain" metaphor and I find her descriptions of how to recognise each "level" of dysregulation and what to do at each state to be extremely helpful. The other thing to look at here is sensory input - find out what types of sensory input help your child to regulate and what they might be seeking especially with hyperactive type behaviour. This I've found difficult to find good cohesive info in one place, but I've read some helpful things on The OT Butterfly and Occuplaytional Therapist. I think OT would be useful for this but I don't know how easy it is to access. I get the sense that understanding sensory input can help when you have a child for whom "get their energy out" is unpredictable or doesn't work at all.

But sometimes this can also be as simple as the fact that ADHD children often don't pay very good attention to their own bodies so they don't notice easily if they are hungry, thirsty, need the toilet, tired, hot/cold etc. He might seem to be a bit old to have to prompt these things but think about whether any of them might be an issue and if so, try prompting or offering so that they are happening regularly. I often find with my 6yo if he's suddenly in an antagonistic mood it's because he needs the toilet and has been ignoring it for ages.

This is the first post I have ever bookmarked. Thank you. Really fantastic insights and I definitely chuckled at the book title so I guess it's designed for me! Grin

Also, not to be even more fawning.... I didn't clock username at first. But you've been on a couple of my threads over the years re DS and have always been super helpful so I shouldn't be surprised!

Haveyouanyjam · 18/03/2025 15:05

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 18/03/2025 14:06

I have in no way suggested that OP’s parenting is perfect but there is a large spectrum between perfect and abuse.

Sorry, you brought up who I was arguing with and I was telling you that I don’t think it was right for them to praise the OP’s parenting as “good parenting”. I wasn’t implying you had said, it was highlighting that yes while we can’t pretend the child is perfect, we also can’t pretend the parent is perfect. I understand you think the cruelty and shouting are less than ideal but not abusive. I think it is. That’s ok to have a difference of opinion and it’s ok for me to have commented on OP’s parenting because she directly asked “am I being too harsh?”

It is a hard balance to strike to maintain your authority with an ADHD child who gets brain rewards from conflict and unconsciously wants to control the situation to keep getting those rewards, whilst staying calm and kind. It takes a lot of practice and effort.

ADHD doesn’t mean you get “brain rewards” from conflict nor seek more conflict to keep getting those brain rewards, that is a huge misunderstanding. If anything, we tend to be people pleasers anxious to behave well and when we get criticised, our emotional dysregulation and rejection sensitivity means we start spiralling…so the conflict can escalate. It is hard, I agree with you there, but it hard on everyone and there are no rewards for the ADHD sufferer.

Editing to add I am glad we are having a calm discussion ;)

Edited

That’s fine. The biological evidence supports that those with ADHD can get a dopamine boost from the rush that comes from conflict, it doesn’t mean it happens that way for everyone and personality will interact with it. I say this as someone with a husband and child with ADHD who has met the initial criteria myself. It is more common when kids have learned that conflict can be stimulating, my DSS grew up initially in a high conflict household so he learned to engage in the behaviour, though it’s not a conscious choice for him. Outside the home he is highly people pleasing and will act totally differently most of the time. He has conflict with peers but most of it is at home. For example, he often starts an argument around homework as he doesn’t want to do it, finds it boring etc. arguing or getting me to react both gives the dopamine hit unconsciously and he hopes it may also
get him out of doing it (it won’t). Do you parent an ND child? As my experience as a person and a partner is totally different to my experience as a parent. Kids with ADHD sometimes can’t stop themselves from winding others up (siblings and parents not outside the home) because it gives them a dopamine reward, even though they can clearly explain the negative consequences of doing so. I have found Grownowadhd invaluable help on social media as a parent. You are arguing/debating on here (as am I) as it is safe to do so, as it is safe for my child to argue at home. Would you say your behaviour is people pleasing on this thread?

just highlighting some different points, I’m as guilty of it as the rest!