For telling my friend she was ridiculous to bring a 7 year old for a spa day!

[Senuousnotsensuous]

My friend Emily has a 7 year old daughter Milly who she brings every time we meet up either when it’s just the two of us or with a group of our other friends.

Emily insists Milly wants to come but it’s frustrating as we can never have a conversation without her giving her opinion or Milly takes over and Emily sits smiling proudly, she often comments on her daughter’s maturity and how she loves joining us.

We do occasionally get time when Milly is at school but any weekend meet ups are the same, Milly could stay with her dad at home but apparently gets very upset when she’s not invited so Emily gives in and lets her come. We have had a few occasions where we have met up in restaurants for a meal in the evenings and Milly has often made an appearance, the whole evening ends up revolving round her.

My other friends said they were fed up with this as well, we stopped inviting Emily as often but she noticed and was hurt.
I managed to get her to meet me one to one and asked if she was being persuaded by her husband to bring Milly and said I was concerned that she never seemed to get time to herself, she insisted that wasn’t the case and said she thought we loved seeing Milly.
I explained that no one else brought their kids along and wanted adult time and as much as we liked Milly it’s frustrating to get childcare for other kids for a childfree evening then Milly being allowed to come.
Its not fair on the other kids and changes the dynamic and means Emily has to leave early. We are sick of censoring the conversation and being unable to talk freely.
Emily agreed to stop bringing Milly along unless other kids were going to be present.

A few weeks ago we booked a spa day for today for 3 of us and Emily.
The package included a 25 minute massage treatment each and use of the facilities for 3 hours and afternoon tea with Prosecco.
I didn’t think not to ask Emily not to bring Milly as surely it’s common sense?!

Well the spa was booked for 10am and Emily brought Milly. We asked her how she possibly thought this would work and she said Milly wanted to use the pool and we could watch her when Emily had her massage.
Emily was told by staff she couldn’t being Milly into the spa and got very upset and complained that she’d paid for the day, her husband refused to pick her up saying he’d agreed to work overtime now, Milly started crying hysterically.

I had no sympathy and told Emily one of the reasons we booked a spa day was in the hope of actually spending time with her alone and we never considered she’d bring Milly. My other friends were equally as unsympathetic and said she had brought this on herself and it was her own fault Milly was upset and if lost the money.

Emily had to leave with Milly and looked absolutely devastated, she didn’t apologise though she just kept saying how ridiculous it was that the spa wouldn’t let Milly in or make any exceptions.

After she left we all agreed it was time to stop inviting Emily anywhere as she obviously wasn’t going to stop bringing Milly, we were throughly pissed off about the whole thing.

One friend has just sent me a message saying Emily has been crying down the phone for hours on her and thinks we were maybe a bit harsh and that Emily said she finds it hard to leave Milly because she gets so upset when she can’t come along. She thinks we should apologise for getting so frustrated with her today.

I think the whole situation is fucking bizarre and if Emily was a struggling single parent I could maybe understand it, I have had enough though and I’m not apologising, I have tried to chat about it but she’s not willing to listen.

AIBU for not being more understanding? It’s not just me, my other friends feel the same, even the friend who thinks we should apologise said she thinks it’s best we no longer invite Emily.
I don’t think Emily is ever going to take in what we are saying and she will keep bringing Milly because she can’t say no to her.

I had a friend I occasionally played squash with, her husband suggested she take the kids and we could watch them.
I simply asked if he'd be happy doing that with his friends .
It didn't happen.
I realise this (apparently) doesn't come from the husband but would say there's some flawed parenting there if she can't say no to her daughter and problems are mounting up for the future if the dynamic doesn't change.
Imagine a teen you can't say no to?
That is, if you are getting the full story

@ThisFluentBiscuit
Sorry, I missed that “It’s” 🤦🏻
Not only am I dissing my friend but ungrammatically too.

It wouldn’t surprise me if my friend went full Trey’s mother too. Poor Milly, poor friend’s child.

Emily is bonkers. Most spas don’t let under 18s in anyway, so this one is not down to you.

Giving in to Milly all the time is not idea for Milly, as the rest of the world won’t do the same…

Tell Emily she'll be asked to join you all on nights out etc on the understanding she doesn't bring Milly. If this doesn't suit her then the balls in her court whether of not she takes up the invites. why is she letting her 7 year old guilt trip her into taking her everywhere with her? Tell Emily her Husband can start taking care of his daughter when she's is going out with her friends.

I've experienced similar with a longstanding friendship. Her dc was actually very rude and equally consumed all the oxygen in the room, talking rubbish non-stop, while friend never once told her the adults are talking etc. and seemed pleased or something about child talking so much.

Hardly ever got to have a proper conversation which I personally found sad initially as I really wanted to talk to my friend. Would never leave her dc at home. In the year before the friendship ended I became quite blunt saying about leaving her dc at home etc. and she would resist saying similar that her dc wanted to come etc. and would get upset otherwise.

Called it quits on the friendship and was the right thing to do.

Not my circus, not my monkeys.

Not in Italy, US, France or Denmark that's for sure. Maybe in some tribe community in Africa?

I don’t reckon any women anywhere in any culture would smile beatifically if one of their number consistently brought their kid to precious all women fun events when everyone else has left their kids at home. It would piss off Mary Magdalene

No, "its" with no apostrophe is correct; I was referring to the fact that you were calling a human being an "it" instead of a he or she!

Yup. Only thing to do is stay away. I've had this twice - once with a family member and her toddler, and once with a friend's dog. Conversation was completely curtailed with the toddler. Because of the dog, we had to give up going to our favourite restaurant, the theatre, anywhere the dog couldn't go.

Basically, these people are simply gigantic pains in the arse. It's nothing to do with their child or dog - they're just another way that their character deficiencies come out. In both cases, these people were utter PITAs before and after the child and dog, in quite a few different ways.

Trying to be friends with people who are deficient in personality, social skills, or what have you just does not work. They're not worth the stress.

Christ. Sorry you have this situation with your own sister. Not like you can drop her like you can with friends. And why does your sister think it's OK to expose a child who's only just turned 13 to a 15-certificate film?? That is terrible parenting!

There you go. Spent my whole morning on it 😅, and there's a second thread which is linked toward the end.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2998359-AIBU-You-dont-bring-a-toddler-to-a-hen-do

Why the "maybe some tribe in Africa"?

Adult time is adult time, even for Africans.

@ThisFluentBiscuit
I did think that then I got distracted. I am sometimes guilty of missing the bleeding obvious. Using “It” is a bad habit of mine, especially with new mums… 😒

I felt “it” was less clunky than S/he, I didn’t want to completely out my friend. But I did go on to say her so that plan failed 🤦🏻. The child isn’t a brat but there are definitely separation issues on both sides.

The only person I know who has their child with them more often that is usual is coping with a lad with special needs. And even then, she extricates herself when needed. I think Emily has transferred herself into this child for some reason - I keep thinking of a ventriloquist and a dummy, although I am not sure who is which - and she actually cannot face seeing the world without her mouthpiece. That's for her to sort out - there is no way you can possibly help her because this will not be a simple or straightforward fix. YANBU at all in my view.

You see, I don't think it's true now that the UK is not child friendly. I think it's actually way more in the other direction. On this post alone, we've seen the number of people with friends who have done the same as Emily. It's now much more expected that children be welcomed everywhere. Daring to suggest that it isn't a bad idea to have some space left for adults to be adults is, to some, tantamount to wanting children locked in cupboards or believing children should be 'seen and not heard'.

Most UK children would be routinely included in a family night out. That's expected and understood. But a 'family night out' isn't going to be a bar, or a spa. That's really not that different to the continent. My brother is bringing his kids up with his Italian wife in Rome. There's much less of this 'everywhere has to be child friendly' there than there is here. There's also much higher expectations of behaviour in more adult spaces.

I have a similar friend. Going anywhere as a group with them is difficult as this child has never been told no. They missed the food at my child's party as they wanted to play arcade games and mum can't say no - not even to say they could play after her kid wanted to play so it had to be immediate. As a consequence the kids behaviour is challenging to say the least

I agree that behaviour expectations on the continent, or at least France, Germany, Spain, Italy, where I have had the chance to observe. The UK seems to have stopped telling children how to behave and don't have much adult time any more. But it's not child-friendly in one sense: the children don't learn manners and don't understand that they are children and not their parents' friends.

I clicked the wrong response! To clarify YANBU. This is bonkers and if you’ve tried to talk and she’s not got the message then she’s lost her friendship group through her own doing.

she needs to parent appropriately and learn to say no.

Sure, I would. But in this case, I'm thinking of the etiquette expert Judith Martin, known as Miss Manners.

My point was that listing the reasons, no matter how valid, is sometimes not the most effective way to convince someone.

Emily is a loon who needs professional help.

@Senuousnotsensuous this thread was tagged on to another thread about a women trying to bring her kids to her nail appointment
was just wondering how are things now with your friend? or are you still friends?

Oh yes an update would be great! Has Emily been dropped? Or has she seen sense?