Mark Carney taking on Trump

[RedHot2025]

Fighting talk from Mark Carney today. He will win the trade war with America. Blames Trump entirely for this trade war.

He will apply from today 25% surcharge on energy to the 3 US states they supply. Means around 100 dollars per month per family in those states.

Trump is a buffoon as well as a bully and people will not tolerate his actions.

Does Trump have dementia?

Or is he thick as shite?

YABU he's just thick

YANBU he has dementia

I'm curious why you want to compare democracies to majority world non-democratic countries. The first should have better rights and freedoms.

And I'm deeply concerned about freedom of speech in other countries. You want to have a discussion about the differences in freedoms between Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan since Soviet rule ended, I just finished a couple of books and would love to.

But this thread is not about that.

The US does have greater protection in terms of free speech and right to protest than almost any country on earth. But this case isn’t about either of those things. It’s about support for a proscribed terror group.

It's sad to see how easily Trumpers swallow the party line.

When Anne Coulter, of all people, recognizes and raises concern regarding a plain and obvious violation of the First Amendment in the context of an attempted deportation, only a true Trumpian zealot will fail to see it.

There's no evidence of terrorism connections. Therefore it's a first amendment violation. To say the US has greater protection while arguing that someone should be deported for free speech is pure orange.

I don't disagree, but I see him like a badly behaved toddler who would rather get constant attention for being bad than be ignored.

@Maitri108 The accusations relate to the dissemination of Hamas propoganda and support for Hamas.

I have no idea one way or the other if there is any evidence but no doubt we won’t have to wait too long for the hearing.

I know what the accusations are. I know there's no supporting evidence. As such, he's been detained for free speech and protesting. Meanwhile orange Caesar is frantically shredding documents in the US Aid department and apparently it's not allowed to criticise ICE agents.

And you're cheering all this on while saying the US has the best free speech protection in the world. Sure it does.

@AzurePanda
It's not about being unconcerned.
People don't expect theocracies like Iran to have free speech. Nor do we expect to have any influence on countries which are not democratic.
So it's not a double standard, just different expectations.

Western democracies are pretty much equal in terms of freedom of expression. It sounds like you have been listening to American exceptionalism propaganda and haven't questioned it. Even a lot of left wing Americans believe in that nonsense, so it's pervasive.

Yea @MuckFusk

They asked Americans why Canada would want to be part of America and the answer was 'freedom'. No idiot, literally the opposite since Canadians don't want to be American!

@MuckFusk I haven’t been cheering anything on.

The First Amendment obviously affords significant protection in terms of free speech. I’ve yet to see any examples of people in the US being imprisoned for posts on social media for example unless they break the specific exceptions relating to harassment, incitement to immediate violence and targeted threats.

Non crime hate incidents couldn’t exist in the US due to the First Amendment.

I have been told by Americans that Canada does not even have a constitution.😄
Their ignorance of other cultures is astounding. Thus they really do think they are exceptional.

For the record, I didn't say you were cheering anything on.

(Edited to add; it looks like somebody else actually made the comment about cheering something on.)

I agree that the American constitution protects freedom of expression. All I said was that America is not exceptional in this constitutional protection.
You're saying other democracies imprison people for expressing opinions on social media? Which ones?

Apologies, it was @Maitri108 . Germany has certainly done this and has also clamped down on all sort of protests, including pro - Palestinian

Yes, the far right has been on the rise in Europe for some time now and governments are increasingly violating human rights laws.

True. One example hardly supports American exceptionalism in this area though.

A large number of countries have legislation in place covering “hate speech” as in hate speech on its own is a crime. America does not due to the first amendment.

As has already been explained, there was no intention of following due process as defined by the The Immigration Nationality Act of 1952 which is being invoked.
You know, that antisemitic law, complete with 'detention camps', introduced using the canard that "Jews are disrupters" Every single Jewish organisation, politician and committee opposed that very law. It was described as " an example of the worst kind of legislation, discriminatory and abusive of American concepts and ideals" and there is a reason it is rarely ever used.

And of course Khalil is accused of distributing pamphlets featuring Hamas iconography so in his case, free speech is irrelevant
Accused by who?
Discriminatory harassment, targeted threats and incitement to violence are not covered by free speech protection. And the Columbia protests involved property damage and vandalism, also illegal
None of which actually apply in this case 🤷‍♀️

The US does have greater protection in terms of free speech and right to protest than almost any country on earth
No, it really doesn't. Not anymore. The orange dictator has given himself the unilateral authority to revoke federal funds to any college that allows 'illegal' protests. As it did with Columbia. Froze funding until the college itself followed his demands. This will ensure that colleges now quash any lawful speech for fear of retribution. He has circumvented the law and the constitution at every step and has no intention of stopping.

But this case isn’t about either of those things. It’s about support for a proscribed terror group
No, it really isn't

You mean hate speech like the man we were discussing (sorry, forgot his name) was accused of? He's accused of disseminating anti-Semitic, pro-Hamas material, not commiting a crime against any person or property, right? There's no difference. There are always exceptions to free expression and the US is no different in that regard.
Spreading propaganda from an illegal terrorist organization is a reasonable exception, if in fact he did so. It seems like you're saying that exceptions in other countries are unreasonable in order to support an exceptionalism claim. Is that right? What's reasonable and acceptable in one culture does not have to apply to another. This is where Americans go wrong. They fail to acknowledge cultural differences and think their way of doing things is the only acceptable one, which is a byproduct of both ignorance and arrogance.

@CJsGoldfish The statement from the DHS on his arrest specifically alleged that Khalil “led activities, aligned to Hamas, a dedicated Terrorist Organization”.

The law surrounding circumstances under which a Green Card can be revoked is very clear and legally GC holders are “aliens”, not citizens. There has been no change in this since Trump came to power.

As you say yourself, the revoking of funding to colleges is related solely to those that allow “illegal” protests. There has been no change in law as to what is legal or illegal as far as protests are concerned under Trump.

“led activities, aligned to Hamas, a dedicated Terrorist Organization”.

That's doing a lot of heavy lifting. 'Aligned' with. Not promoting, funding, supporting even. Interesting and worrisome wording.

I'm probably aligned with many people and organisations including bad ones or debatable ones. E.g Nelson Mandela on many things but not the violence that the ANC sometimes partook in.

What's an illegal protest? Trump has threatened deportation and loss of federal funding for 'illegal protests' - what defines an illegal protest?

Trump has said that this is the first of many and we all know how Trump feels about protesters. According to Mark Esper, Trump suggested shooting protesters in Lafayette Park during his first tenure.

Yup. "Aligned with Hamas" could simply mean "supports Palestine".

The fact that it's framed as "aligned with" is a ginormous red flag.

I suspect they'll be coming for various Democrat Reps before too long.

Yes even on this forum you can get called a "terrorist sympathisor" or "pro Hamas" for showing concern for Palestinians, or criticising the Israeli Government.

This thread is supposedly about Carney from Canada taking on Trump but goodness the CITME thread gets dragged over here as well. Those threads are hot beds of arguments and deletions where posters get enraged if people derail. Double standards eh? I think I'll wander over there and start talking tarrifs in Canada, yiu knowyou wouldn't like it. Pro.pal propaganda isn't wanted by everyone maybe some people also have other things to talk about 🙄