My sister's been sacked - AGAIN!

[Scottysister]

Not so much AIBU but more is ISBU - Is She Being Unreasonable?

My younger sister has just been fired from her third job in seven years. Middle management in the private sector.

She’s coming to stay with DH & me in a couple of days & I’m dreading it. How she’s been picked on/bullied/forced out will be the only topic of conversation. I want to support her but how can I (kindly/nicely) point out to her that her behaviour & personality are a massive factor in what keeps happening? She just doesn’t see it.

She’s early 50’s - not had a partner for 20years or so. No children or friends either. Her work is EVERYTHING to her. She is so passionate about it & expects everyone on her team to be the same. But they aren’t. They have a life outside of work but sadly she doesn’t. Each new job is the best she’s ever had. Until it isn’t. Each new team is absolutely brilliant. Until they aren’t. I do think she gets results and is good at the technical side of her job. Just really bad at the people/relationship side. The hours she works (through choice) are ridiculous.

She’s never been a particularly easy person to be around. Very intense & tightly wound. When we see her we’re all constantly walking on eggshells for fear of saying something that will upset or annoy her. Our elderly mother in particular. Her moods can be awful & she doesn’t take any criticism well. I think over the years the whole family has avoided saying no to her for fear of the explosion of anger & moods. I don’t think we’ve done her any favours with that approach.

I live at the other end of the country so we don’t see each other that often. She comes up maybe two or three times a year. We’re never invited to stay with her. I do message but she’s not great at replying - maybe a thumbs up or a very brief reply. Just says she’s super busy at work. She rarely messages me.

The previous sacking happened because she lost her temper with a junior member of her team & shouted/swore at them about something pretty minor. This was in front of a client. She couldn’t see that she had played any role in events. Kept saying that everyone had it in for her & it had been orchestrated. That she’d been victimised, bullied etc. She came to stay after that & it was awful. Gentle attempts to point out how wrong her behaviour was, didn’t go down well at all. She said I was blaming her & she was the victim in all this. I also suggested she thought about some counselling but she said that was ridiculous & it was the others who needed it not her.

I tried to be positive with suggestions to stop it happening again. Maybe work fewer hours, take time off, get a hobby, keep it professional with the team, try & nip any issues in the bud etc etc. Clearly that all fell on deaf ears.

I don’t know the full detail of what’s happened this time yet but (again) her new team has turned against her. Reported her to HR for various things and she’s out. She sounded so angry on the phone yesterday.

I’ve read about DARVO & a lot of that seems to fit. She thinks she’s the victim because she’s been fired, but her behaviour led to it - again!

How can she not see she’s the common denominator? What’s the best way to have a conversation about this? DH & I can’t just bite our tongues for the duration of the visit. How do you talk to someone who doesn’t listen? Has anyone got any tips or advice? Am dreading it.

So sorry this was really long.

Honestly, I’d tell her you think it’s best she doesn’t visit.

Tell her that last time she wasn’t willing to listen to you and that it was a very difficult time and that she needs to think about her behaviour.

Don't have her to stay. She's not going to recognise her behaviour, so anything you say will fall on deaf ears. Certainly while she's still raw about. Maybe suggest she comes to stay in a few months.

Alternatively send her an email letting her know that any discussion of her work situation is off limits unless she is prepared to be receptive to your ideas for her to make some changes - otherwise you will have to ask her to leave.

I think I’d gently suggest she try a different type of job, where you don’t have the worry of managing other people. I wouldn’t kick her whilst she’s down if it were my sibling.

If she can’t see swearing at a colleague is unacceptable especially in front of clients she’s an idiot.

I think it's time to say to yourself that this isn't your problem and not your job to fix, if she's not receptive to advice and help. Just nod along "uh huh" when she's talking about it, and don't engage in a discussion.

Why are you so set on getting her to see it differently? You don't see her often, how she is at work has little impact on you day to day and she is clearly pretty set in her ways. I'd just let her be how she is. The moaning is happening during your visit regardless of how you respond so I'd just make sympathetic noises and suggest distraction activities that work for you.

What would be the point in trying to discuss this with her?
Just say "oh dear, sounds tough" and move one.
It sounds like she has no self awareness and won't listen to anyone and if you want to have as nice a time with her as possible then just avoid it altogether.
Its not your job to try and get her to change

Her being sacked isn't your problem, she wouldn't be coming to stay if it was me. I'd be telling her to use her time wisely and learn from constantly being fired.

Wouldn't give it a second thought.

Don’t try and fix her. You’re not going to fix her. I could’ve written this about my sister!!!
Best thing to do is just listen if you really have to, but otherwise maybe suggest changing the topic so she can try and get over it.
Clearly, if you say to her, ‘have you thought about what you would do differently yourself next time?’ it will go down like a bag of sand. Yet it would be a reasonable question to ask.

Tell her she can't stay.
Be honest, tell her you can't cope with her behaviour anymore and her inability to take accountability for her own fuck ups.
You are unwilling to walk on eggshells in your own home to accommodate her.
Until she can enter the real world and understand it doesn't revolve around her then she can stay but until then you don't want to hear about how she's the victim or being bullied because you just don't have the mental capacity to deal with the petulance anymore.

Work needs to be off the table for the duration of the visit. Is it coincidence that she's coming up now or does she know she gets tea and sympathy and a captive audience?
You need to change the third bit of that.
If she thinks she has been sacked unfairly, give her the phone number for ACAS and tell her to phone them for advice. And/or her legal assistance with her union or home insurance if she has either.
That's all you say. Be a stuck record, well you need to see what ACAS say... and then change the subject pdq.
Or if she's domineering and you find it too hard and you've tried that previously, put off her visit until it's not as raw.

OP, yes, this is your sister and you care. However I do think you are over-thinking and over-analysing this.

She is an adult. You are not responsible for her behaviour or the consequences of her behaviour.

Of course you want to see her and spend time with her. But, you need some rules, and make these clear when she arrives.

E.g., "It's great to see you, and we're happy to have a brief chat about work when you arrive, but after this we are going to do x, y and z..."

Or more straightforwardly, "I appreciate you are going through a tough time, but there is nothing we can help you with this. I think it's best that we talk about different things."

That sounds harsh, but you need to set some rules.

P.S. It might sound as if she would benefit from some professional coaching, so if you do suggest something, this is an option.

I've never really understood these family dynamics where people just put up with this kind of behaviour.

I would have said something years ago as I just can't abide walking on eggshells or pretending someone is a good person when clearly they have anger issues.

And the fact that she was previously fired for bullying says it all.

I'd tell her some home truths quite frankly.

You can’t fix her, and you shouldn’t try. Either cancel the visit (say work is too busy), tell her you sympathise, but don’t want to hear about it while she’s at your house because you have enough going on yourself, or sit her down and tell her that she needs to think about why she keeps being fired, despite her clear commitment to her various jobs. That the common denominator is her. So what if she explodes? Not your issue.

Do you have to have her to stay? How long is she coming for? She clearly has no self awareness about the reasons for her being dismissed three times in seven years. She is obviously a difficult colleague as well as a difficult sister.

What would happen if you withdrew the invitation to stay with you? It doesn't sound very enjoyable.

She sounds like a bully. I wouldn't let her come and stay with you.

Had an acquaintance like this, worked in education.
She got pensioned off in her early 50’s, private sector, I think they just didn’t want scandal of sacking her.
She has been the same since we met and has never changed. She has NC with her brother and sister after their parents died as the siblings were ripping her off, bullying her.
Luckily for me she decided I didn’t support her when her mum died (not a lucky occasion!) and blocked me on everything.
I know that’s probably not an option with your sister but she’s not going to change.
If she comes to stay you can either accept the repeated victim hood or challenge her. But be prepared for her to fall out with you.
You could tell her while you are there to support and listen it’s not fair for visits to be a crisis respite service for her.

She's your sister. Have you never had a conversation with her about her behaviour before?

She sounds like a nightmare manager. She'd probably do better in a job where she's more or less on her own. I would suggest to her to think about being self employed. Tell her with her skills and work ethic she'll do well.

I’m going to go against the grain and say I’d suck it up and let her rant. I would nod and make sympathetic noises. She doesn’t have anyone else to talk to 🤷🏻‍♀️I wouldn’t try and point out it may be her as she doesn’t sound like she’d take it on board. I’d try and suggest the career counselling thing if they can help with this sort of thing though it sounds like she wouldn’t tell the facts to any coach so it may be a waste of money.

You could just nod and sympathise. I mean, you're not wrong but equally she's not going to change - is possibly not even capable of change- and that's sad but it's not in your gift to fix. If you want to preserve the relationship I'd suggest you make the visit a busy one with plenty of looking forward to what cones next.

Look, she's not going to listen to you. She's probably not capable of listening to you. Not at this point in her life anyway. So if you accepted that her taking stock and accepting that she's the problem, it's her, is off the table, what decision could you make, for you? Have her to stay and simply make vague "mmmm" noises? Tell her straight that she can vent for a bit but you will NOT spend the whole time listening to her bathe in self-pity? Not have her at all?

Op you need to take some responsibility too. Why is she coming? Just say you are busy and will see her in the summer.

You said your family’s approach is somewhat to blame, and yet you are continuing in the same vein. Knowing the outcome.

She sounds ND (like myself) and I'm sorry for the situation.
I managed NOT to work through life (lucky, funding myself).
What was your upbringing like, your parents?

Some of this sounds like Borderline Personality Disorder. My mother has it and moves from job to job before she's 'pushed out'. It's worth looking into.