My sister's been sacked - AGAIN!

[Scottysister]

Not so much AIBU but more is ISBU - Is She Being Unreasonable?

My younger sister has just been fired from her third job in seven years. Middle management in the private sector.

She’s coming to stay with DH & me in a couple of days & I’m dreading it. How she’s been picked on/bullied/forced out will be the only topic of conversation. I want to support her but how can I (kindly/nicely) point out to her that her behaviour & personality are a massive factor in what keeps happening? She just doesn’t see it.

She’s early 50’s - not had a partner for 20years or so. No children or friends either. Her work is EVERYTHING to her. She is so passionate about it & expects everyone on her team to be the same. But they aren’t. They have a life outside of work but sadly she doesn’t. Each new job is the best she’s ever had. Until it isn’t. Each new team is absolutely brilliant. Until they aren’t. I do think she gets results and is good at the technical side of her job. Just really bad at the people/relationship side. The hours she works (through choice) are ridiculous.

She’s never been a particularly easy person to be around. Very intense & tightly wound. When we see her we’re all constantly walking on eggshells for fear of saying something that will upset or annoy her. Our elderly mother in particular. Her moods can be awful & she doesn’t take any criticism well. I think over the years the whole family has avoided saying no to her for fear of the explosion of anger & moods. I don’t think we’ve done her any favours with that approach.

I live at the other end of the country so we don’t see each other that often. She comes up maybe two or three times a year. We’re never invited to stay with her. I do message but she’s not great at replying - maybe a thumbs up or a very brief reply. Just says she’s super busy at work. She rarely messages me.

The previous sacking happened because she lost her temper with a junior member of her team & shouted/swore at them about something pretty minor. This was in front of a client. She couldn’t see that she had played any role in events. Kept saying that everyone had it in for her & it had been orchestrated. That she’d been victimised, bullied etc. She came to stay after that & it was awful. Gentle attempts to point out how wrong her behaviour was, didn’t go down well at all. She said I was blaming her & she was the victim in all this. I also suggested she thought about some counselling but she said that was ridiculous & it was the others who needed it not her.

I tried to be positive with suggestions to stop it happening again. Maybe work fewer hours, take time off, get a hobby, keep it professional with the team, try & nip any issues in the bud etc etc. Clearly that all fell on deaf ears.

I don’t know the full detail of what’s happened this time yet but (again) her new team has turned against her. Reported her to HR for various things and she’s out. She sounded so angry on the phone yesterday.

I’ve read about DARVO & a lot of that seems to fit. She thinks she’s the victim because she’s been fired, but her behaviour led to it - again!

How can she not see she’s the common denominator? What’s the best way to have a conversation about this? DH & I can’t just bite our tongues for the duration of the visit. How do you talk to someone who doesn’t listen? Has anyone got any tips or advice? Am dreading it.

So sorry this was really long.

HR needs to inform staff exactly how they are allowed to relate to each other and what ''behaviour'' is not acceptable no matter how badly another employee performs. DS may be difficult but many work regulations are now very woke. My son lost 1/2 his bonus because he shouted at a young person who was 'lazy'.

Sympathy, OP. I have a friend like this and she’s a total nightmare. She’s dropped out of multiple uni courses and left multiple jobs and every time the story is the same: she was bullied, she was victimised, she was treated unfairly, it wasn’t her fault. The first couple of times everyone rallied round and was massively sympathetic but now it’s starting to seem more like it’s actually her attitude that’s the problem. Any time she is told off or corrected she takes it as a massive personal insult and think it’s completely unreasonable and can’t see that she has to understand where her weaknesses are in order to learn and develop. Sadly she has zero insight so there’s not a lot we can do.

I'd email her. Tell her that you are very busy and not in a position, at the moment, to deal with her confrontational and demanding behaviour. Suggest she seeks help in the form of counselling and anger management etc and wish her luck. Keep it friendly.

I know quite a few ND people who have had these kinds of issues. It's definitely harder for women.

All now do specific technical roles which don't involve managing other people (or not other adults, anyway - a couple are in education).

Even if your sis thinks all other people are idiots/deluded/slackers (and no doubt a few are, every workplace has 'em), the constant conflict can't be nice for HER.

Keep things light and general, meet in places there's something to do other than talk (I often meet my sis at National Trust places or the theatre), and strongly encourage technical, non management work ideas. Consulting?

I think it might be a good idea to postpone the visit. Let her calm down first so that you aren't being used as the whipping boy for all her frustrations. That way, you are available for her at a distance - texts, phone calls etc - but it isn't as full on. And also you are not permanently pulling up the drawbridge, just delaying things for your own sanity. There is no point in trying to tell her how she is because she clearly doesn't see it and never will.

I have a little bit of experience of a family member who is like this. It's not quite as extreme, but every single place SIL has ever worked, she thinks everyone has it in for her. The crux of it is that she is extremely paranoid and sensitive and always analyses every voice inflection, every tiny interaction, assuming that they all hate her. She can also fill in all the gaps with ridiculous assumptions about what it all means. This goes on and on and on. Things settled down when she was working from home, but now that she is back in the office a couple of days a week, it has all started up again and our heads are ready to explode. We generally try to avoid her in person when she's in full rant mode because it's like being pinned to the wall and tortured.

I had a friend like this. Losing one job has happened to most of us, two is unfortunate but five is time to look in the mirror.
She worked long hours, was super anxious & wanted to please everyone & for them to like her.
But the reality was she failed to keep up to date with developments in her field, was over needy (& was in her personal life) & thought she did a good job.

I pulled back from the friendship because she was stuck in a rut & never listened to suggestions or advice - after a while it's boring.

I'd suggest she look at training opportunities & updating her skills, including those around staff management & wellbeing which is increasingly important in today's workplaces.

Not everyone thinks like your sister does . Not everyone is passionate and goes above and beyond at work like she does . She taking things too personally that's why she flares up .

Most people just do what's required of them or less if they can get away with it and goes home . I also think she's probably more stick than carrot and possibly lets things build up instead of nipping things in the bud .

Message her before she comes, tell her you're happy to discuss the work situation for one hour and that's it. Ask he if she wants sympathy or constructive advice.

Could she go self employed ? She might find that much easier

Do you have an Alexa? I've got an autistic 12 year old who can go on and on and ooonnnn and setting a timer sometimes works and you can "blame" the timer.

And then set it for the same period of time while you moan about the weather/Trump/potholes? 😂

I work with a version of your sister. She is in complete denial about her own behaviour and how it affects workplace relationships. She is super clever, hardworking and really very nice until you disagree with her or overrule her (I am senior to her). Then she melts down. It's such a problem as her lack of self awareness means that it's likely she will be fired due to conduct.

What's "woke" about expecting people to challenge under performance without being aggressive?

That is a brilliant idea! DP bangs on for hours about his latest special interest and I'm usually willing my phone to ring. I do try to be interested, but I honestly don't care about the life story of some obscure actor from the 1940s or how an amplifier works. My brain is already full of my own weird obsessions!

How is she getting references for new jobs if she's been sacked three times?

Such a difficult one. You might try a broken record approach- keep saying, I know you see it like that but it seems to me that you play a big part in these crises and nothing will change until you do.
Or you could keep saying, Live you sis, but I can’t stand hearing any more about this. Let’s put a film on and have a drink.
Theres no point in gently trying to talk her round.

Why is it your problem. Do.nothing. you say you aren't really that close either.
Dont burden yourself.

Very difficult situation and I hope she values your support. It sounds like you are the only family she can vent to and she needs to vent.
If she is good at the technical and not so good at the people management she needs a role which plays to her strengths so purely technical and no people management.
Those jobs will be out there you just need to try and suggest she finds one. She would be a lot happier, I managed people for many years and basically the majority were lovely but the few which were a pain in the backside still haunt me to this day.
I now work in a role where I don't manage anyone and it is bliss.

I would do some tough love.

Tell her the truth and don’t have her to stay or she might try and move in. She sounds exactly the type to take advantage.

THIS!
My sister is this sort of person - she is quite judgmental of people (including me) and overly critical if they don't do things the way she would (or has advised them to). She is retired now but this also caused her unhappiness and some friction sometimes at work. She can't understand why this is not a good idea though she cannot bear to be criticised or told what to do herself. She is capable of being very kind and is quite easily hurt by remarks from other people. I realise that I am the only family left that she can talk about it to, so I must listen and not frankly point out that she was wrong. I try to gently suggest the other person's point of view or tell her it is best to only give advice or involve herself in friends' problems if actually asked. So, please let her come and vent (as others have said, then getting her to talk about other, less inflammatory matters too, if you can). It is very difficult.@

Seriously ? You do not shout at people in the workplace. That is unacceptable.

You can discipline an employee- all kinds of way but there is no need for that at all.

Just to add to my previous post, I don't think getting fired every several years is that bad. I have a family member in their 50's who literally gets fired every 6 months!
They are very personable, very well presented and very good at talking themselves in to jobs which exceed their capabilities!

Hey Sis

What’s the common denominator in all these sackings….. you! You need to think about that.

You could be describing one of my relatives. 50s, not had a relationship in 20 plus years, no kids, all career, never even cared for a houseplant. Nothing is ever her fault, everything must be done her way, the focus of every conversation must revolve around her, and she’s ALWAYS the victim. She’s probably one of the most toxic people I’ve ever met, and bitter too. I totally cut her off last year after a big falling out and it’s the best thing I ever did.

I think just say "Look Sally ,I know its rough for you .but what can u do?" Suggest trips out to places nearby :NT houses . local villages ,market towns and so on .If she starts on "Its so unfair!" say You like to see her but want to talk about other things .I feel sorry for her TBH .Lots of older staff are getting pushed out, as younger teams have a softer approach to work now.You say work is her life so she will take it hard .

If just listen to her and be a supportive sis. You’re not going to change her. Why not suggest you do something lovely together to keep her mind off her problems. If you don’t see her that much or talk very often how do you know that Iit is her who is in the wrong. I’d offer a shoulder to cry on