My sister's been sacked - AGAIN!

[Scottysister]

Not so much AIBU but more is ISBU - Is She Being Unreasonable?

My younger sister has just been fired from her third job in seven years. Middle management in the private sector.

She’s coming to stay with DH & me in a couple of days & I’m dreading it. How she’s been picked on/bullied/forced out will be the only topic of conversation. I want to support her but how can I (kindly/nicely) point out to her that her behaviour & personality are a massive factor in what keeps happening? She just doesn’t see it.

She’s early 50’s - not had a partner for 20years or so. No children or friends either. Her work is EVERYTHING to her. She is so passionate about it & expects everyone on her team to be the same. But they aren’t. They have a life outside of work but sadly she doesn’t. Each new job is the best she’s ever had. Until it isn’t. Each new team is absolutely brilliant. Until they aren’t. I do think she gets results and is good at the technical side of her job. Just really bad at the people/relationship side. The hours she works (through choice) are ridiculous.

She’s never been a particularly easy person to be around. Very intense & tightly wound. When we see her we’re all constantly walking on eggshells for fear of saying something that will upset or annoy her. Our elderly mother in particular. Her moods can be awful & she doesn’t take any criticism well. I think over the years the whole family has avoided saying no to her for fear of the explosion of anger & moods. I don’t think we’ve done her any favours with that approach.

I live at the other end of the country so we don’t see each other that often. She comes up maybe two or three times a year. We’re never invited to stay with her. I do message but she’s not great at replying - maybe a thumbs up or a very brief reply. Just says she’s super busy at work. She rarely messages me.

The previous sacking happened because she lost her temper with a junior member of her team & shouted/swore at them about something pretty minor. This was in front of a client. She couldn’t see that she had played any role in events. Kept saying that everyone had it in for her & it had been orchestrated. That she’d been victimised, bullied etc. She came to stay after that & it was awful. Gentle attempts to point out how wrong her behaviour was, didn’t go down well at all. She said I was blaming her & she was the victim in all this. I also suggested she thought about some counselling but she said that was ridiculous & it was the others who needed it not her.

I tried to be positive with suggestions to stop it happening again. Maybe work fewer hours, take time off, get a hobby, keep it professional with the team, try & nip any issues in the bud etc etc. Clearly that all fell on deaf ears.

I don’t know the full detail of what’s happened this time yet but (again) her new team has turned against her. Reported her to HR for various things and she’s out. She sounded so angry on the phone yesterday.

I’ve read about DARVO & a lot of that seems to fit. She thinks she’s the victim because she’s been fired, but her behaviour led to it - again!

How can she not see she’s the common denominator? What’s the best way to have a conversation about this? DH & I can’t just bite our tongues for the duration of the visit. How do you talk to someone who doesn’t listen? Has anyone got any tips or advice? Am dreading it.

So sorry this was really long.

I'd cancel it by saying we were ill. I wouldn't have her over for a while.

i agree with do nothing approach.
it will be easier for you
just nod

Your DS would’ve had a loss of his whole bonus, a disciplinary for shouting at anyone if I were his manager in the workplace.

Honestly, who gives him the right to “manage” someone like that?

I don’t think it’s woke to say people shouldn’t be shouted at in the workplace! Your DS got off lightly!.

As to the OP’s situation, I would avoid having her to stay with you if you can. It will be extremely draining for you and your DH. If you cannot avoid it, try to limit her stay and time talking about it.

You will absolutely be wasting your time trying to get her to understand that her behaviour is an issue so I wouldn’t bother trying.

Don't have her to stay. Not just because you're dreading it but because losing her job is the consequence of her actions, and it's probably not the right time to add family critique on to her.

Thank you so much for all the thoughtful replies. Will read them properly & reply later this afternoon. Friends over at the moment for lunch. 🙏

If you still feel engaged, keep asking her how she is feeling. She is avoiding her own feelings and projecting everything on to others. This pattern will keep re-occurring until your sister realises that she needs to look deeply at herself and seek counselling. It is a shame because this is her life and even though she may not admit it, she must be feeling hurt and disappointed.

HR cannot legislate for every single possible scenario. Workplaces rely on people using their common sense, decency and respect for others as a guide to their behaviour.

There are very few scenarios in which it's acceptable to shout at someone. The only one that springs to mind is if you had to warn them urgently that they were about to do something dangerous.

And she may well be being bullied for it. Op, as you don't work with her you don't know the full story. Your sister is different and it could be that there is a vicious circle in operation. She is different and gets treated like an outsider, this may make her behave in the way that she does. Just a thought. You don't have to put up with her and you don't have to have her stay with you but how do you know that the problems are all of her her own making. Some people just don't fit in.

You seem to talk about her not having a relationship and of her fixation on work as though that's a bad thing, but she may love to work because she can't form relationships and being at work is her way of feeling as though she is part of a family. She's trying to make a go of things and failing. That's sad.

Don't waste your time trying to change her.
Move the subject on, nod, do whatever it takes to get through the trip.
With family that shows so little interest in others, I wouldn't hesitate to cut down on their visits, particularlyto stay..

I wonder if she is ND, hyperfocused on work, no friends or other interests. Either she is the way she it sounds like she is the way she is and doesn’t want to recognise it.

Don’t allow her to focus the whole weekend on this. Maybe suggests she talks it through with a professional.

This. Apart from chewing your ear off, and you can distract or engage, that’s up to you, this isn’t your your problem.

If it was my sister I would want to do something to help the situation rather than just providing a listening ear.

I think that my tactic would be to encourage her to think about some sort of executive coaching. Framed as use this time to progress your career and find a role which lets you take a step up / better use your strengths and talents. If she's honest with an executive coach they will support her to realise that this is at least partly her fault.

I also like pp suggestions of self employment, but I would be worried that without a bit more insight that she'll struggle to manage the people side of self employment (you definitely have to bite your tongue more with clients than with staff - and sounds like she isn't great at either).

Its not your job, she needs to find a therapist.

I think it depends on what you want to do, if you genuinely want to help her and give her some insight to change you might have to tough it out and say "I told you before that I think you might have been in the wrong, and you should look at speaking to a professional, which I'm not" - but you can't ever change someone's behaviour, they have to want to change so it likely won't work. Also, she might take it very badly and it'll be an uncomfortable visit.

The other option is to maintain the family peace, give her a safe space to rant and then when you've had enough say something along the lines of "I think we've probably discussed work enough how about we xyz", set some internal limits on what you can put up with and then force a change.

I'd be tempted to have one last go at seeing if she'll listen. Stay very objective with "it sounds like whatever has happened, you've not got what you wanted from the situation, maybe speaking with a counsellor could help you figure out how to stop this happening again/next time. Im not a professional and i dont think i can help you here" - so you aren't really passing judgement, just stating that she's not happy with the way events transpired (which she can't deny). You're also basically saying you don't want to to hear it too.

What @Couchpotato3 and @Thunderpants88 said.

Whatever you grew up believing, your sister's crises aren't yours to fix. You no longer live with her. It has taken me 40+ years to understand fully both that I don't have to put energy into my sister's life other than to be a listening ear, and also that SHE will take me having a moan about some crisis of mine as a call to action which I don't in the least want!

I have an abject fear of being sacked and have arranged my life so that it has never happened (eg doing jobs well below my theoretical skills, tbh they are still hard and it's easier to make mistakes if youre bored so it's a fine line). My sister is a risk taker and has been sacked or pushed out from terrifyingly senior jobs several times. She bounces back. She's a completely different person from me. I prefer to talk about other stuff - find things you do like about her if you can.

As someone who has just worked with someone like this. She's about to transfer to another dept after putting me and then my boss through hell. I would say you need to stay away from your sister. Poor you.

My sister likes to call me when she has certain problems. I don’t mind this in principle but she doesn’t like listening about my problems at all, plus some of her problems are not serious in my book (e.g mild cold for a few days of a family member) and she is going on and on about them. She also asks for an advice but then becomes very upset if I point out that she’s partially responsible for some of the problems (e.g quarrels with her adult child). It’s very exhausting. Couple of time she called when I had serious issues but I couldn’t literally to put a word in so obsessed she was. It’s like a talking therapy for her but quite the opposite for me.
She is like this straight away, after a few days she is better and much more sensible in a conversation.
So now if I learn from other family members that my sister has certain problems I just don’t call her or don’t take her calls for 3-4 days. I do text or answer her texts but not calls.
So in your situation I don’t think your sister should come now when it’s all so raw, tell her that you are busy/ going away/ redecorating and invite for a later visit.

Blimey, she sounds insufferable!
Some people do actually work to live, as opposed to live to work.

Early 50's, menopause? ( not that that's an excuse).

She's behaving like a child, not an adult.

Honestly, with 3 sackings in 7 years. I'd let her crack and on steer clear!

She sounds ND. It’s unfortunate as she’ll find it very hard to see how she is perceived by others and they will find it hard to see her strengths in the workplace, because of how her weaknesses affect them.

I'd be postponing the visit. After all it's going to be much colder, and your sister will need to sign on, demonstrate looking for jobs from the beginning (insert other reason here).

You can't fix this- and I doubt you will change her but you could show her another way. While she's staying with you, you could show her what a life outside work looks like. Take her along with you to where you normally go to enjoy yourself outside work- out with friends/ coffee/ gym/ hobbies/ book club... whatever.
I'd steer her away from job talk and why she was sacked. I'd validate her feelings- oh that sounds upsetting/ difficult etc etc and then move away from the topic.

You have already decided that it is her fault that she was sacked which doesn't actually sound supportive. She is your sister not your child and I doubt she will change so just nod and don't get involved.

It must be really hard to work every hour you can and give a job your all only to be sacked because you’re not everyone’s mate. Then when trying to get back on your feet, even your own sister who lives miles and miles away won’t believe your lived experience but insists that it must always have been your fault and your behaviour that got you the sack because you’re “the common denominator.”

Some executive coaching could be a great idea.

Framed as 'at your level of experience and expertise, you might have outgrown the middle management stage and be ready for senior roles or consultancy more suited to your drive and perfectionist dedication. It could be you're operating at a level that's no longer for you. A coach could help you discover your next step or a change of direction.'

Then a coach would have the professional expertise to help her self reflect, reach conclusions and set goals - skills that her family don't have.