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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To suspect the "deal" between the US and Russia Greenland for Ukraine?

1000 replies

FancyRedRobin · 05/03/2025 09:02

The way things are shaping up I'm beginning to think the USAs negotiations with Putin were for USA to stand aside and let Putin have part of Ukraine and for Russia to support the US to take Greenland.

OP posts:
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HangryLilacGoose · 15/03/2025 19:55

To make very, very clear - I'm not trying to brush off the moral case for defending Canada. Again, I am in Canada. It is just not presently within the realms of realism to think that European intervention might happen any time soon.

Perhaps if Europe invests heavily in decoupling itself from the US, both in terms of military support but also American technology generally (which I think looks increasingly sensible) then, in a decade or two, the situation might be different. While Trump (or anyone Trumpian) occupies the White House, though, such a decoupling might increase the risk of war (if not from the US directly, from a more enabled and less restrained Russia).

Verdansk84 · 15/03/2025 20:00

Parker231 · 15/03/2025 19:52

So none of this is affecting your life.

yes it still does all the geopolitical aspects , or dont you study politics ?

LizzieW1969 · 15/03/2025 20:01

The one thing that gives me hope is that Trump has a surprising desire to suck up to the Royal Family, and the UK itself. He won’t want to be an enemy of the UK. It gives the UK Government some leverage to negotiate with Trump during the state visit.

HangryLilacGoose · 15/03/2025 20:09

Verdansk84 · 15/03/2025 20:00

yes it still does all the geopolitical aspects , or dont you study politics ?

Look, everyone's been fairly kind to you, and I note that we agree about the unlikelihood of UK military intervention, but of all the many, many threads on the current geopolitical situation, your posts on this one have stood out as easily the most stupid, so any attempt by you to suggest intellectual superiority over any other poster is completely laughable.

Parker231 · 15/03/2025 20:10

Verdansk84 · 15/03/2025 20:00

yes it still does all the geopolitical aspects , or dont you study politics ?

Yes - we’re in Canada close to the border - obviously we’re watching what is happening to our country.

And yes I studied politics and economics at LSE.

DuncinToffee · 15/03/2025 20:10

Massive anti-US invasion protest in Nuuk, Greenland outside the US consulate.

"99% say no Trump"
"no means no"

https://bsky.app/profile/youranoncentral.bsky.social/post/3lkgw5ttnyk2k

Verdansk84 · 15/03/2025 20:11

HangryLilacGoose · 15/03/2025 20:09

Look, everyone's been fairly kind to you, and I note that we agree about the unlikelihood of UK military intervention, but of all the many, many threads on the current geopolitical situation, your posts on this one have stood out as easily the most stupid, so any attempt by you to suggest intellectual superiority over any other poster is completely laughable.

yes im a pickle, but lets be honest asking this :

Parker231 · Today 19:52
So none of this is affecting your life.

im mean realistically anyone that studies politics knows there will be political fallout that will effect the uk, so we do have skin in the game,
as daft as a im im relying on you all to teach me to be better and know more

RedHot2025 · 15/03/2025 20:12

Maitri108 · 05/03/2025 09:50

He said in his speech, he wants America to be the strongest, most powerful force in the world. He wants Canada, the Panama Canal, Greenland and he's renaming oceans.

Instead of looking aghast, the Republicans were leaping up like monkeys and punching the air. All the Democrats did was hold up signs.

Yes it was a very odd scene to watch.

Verdansk84 · 15/03/2025 20:12

and yes im thankfull to all for the discussions and points

Verdansk84 · 15/03/2025 20:14

a us-canada war would put the uk in a really tough position, stuck between its two biggest allies. staying neutral would be pretty much impossible because of military, economic, and political ties. historical connections might push the uk to support canada, but since they rely so much on the us, openly opposing them would be really risky.

SunsetCocktails · 15/03/2025 20:23

DuncinToffee · 15/03/2025 17:59

What is it with posters who don't use capital letters and punctuations marks, they seem to pop up on quite a few threads 🤔

Judging by their opinions and posting style, I’m convinced they’re the same poster

Verdansk84 · 15/03/2025 20:26

SunsetCocktails · 15/03/2025 20:23

Judging by their opinions and posting style, I’m convinced they’re the same poster

why does it matter who i am.

although everyones help is mucha apricated

Verdansk84 · 15/03/2025 20:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SunsetCocktails · 15/03/2025 20:30

Verdansk84 · 15/03/2025 20:26

why does it matter who i am.

although everyones help is mucha apricated

Yeah you just gave yourself away with your “apricated” spelling, although it was pretty obvious really 🙄

HangryLilacGoose · 15/03/2025 20:33

While I do think Canada needs to be prepared for the possibility, I do think the odds of the US conducting a military invasion of Canada (or at least, the Provinces) are very slim. A full-blown, resource-sapping war with Canada and post-war insugencies would do more to endanger US national security interests than it would advance them. I also expect it would result in widespread civil unrest in the US, from the get-go.

The Territories I'm far less sure about.

MuckFusk · 15/03/2025 20:45

SunsetCocktails · 15/03/2025 20:30

Yeah you just gave yourself away with your “apricated” spelling, although it was pretty obvious really 🙄

She said she's left, so hopefully the thread derailment into fantasies of world dictatorship is over. I think I lost some brain cells just by reading those posts.

SunsetCocktails · 15/03/2025 20:51

MuckFusk · 15/03/2025 20:45

She said she's left, so hopefully the thread derailment into fantasies of world dictatorship is over. I think I lost some brain cells just by reading those posts.

Yeah, they seem to be appearing on all the US/Ukraine/Canada threads, under different usernames. I’m finding these threads interesting and informative and it’s irritating having them constantly derailed by someone spouting 95% bull.

HangryLilacGoose · 15/03/2025 21:03

I generally wish Mumsnet would take a harder line with these trolls. Can I suggest we all report that poster?

Frankly I'd like to see posters who are supportive of US expansionism banned as well, but that's probably not going to happen.

Psychostates · 15/03/2025 21:08

SunsetCocktails · 15/03/2025 20:51

Yeah, they seem to be appearing on all the US/Ukraine/Canada threads, under different usernames. I’m finding these threads interesting and informative and it’s irritating having them constantly derailed by someone spouting 95% bull.

Agree. They stand out like a sore thumb. There was one a while ago, 'Lovingspare' or 'hare' or something. MN rightly banned them I think, because all of their posts disappeared. I think the consensus was it was a group of trolls using a translator app, or some sort of bot/AI, or likely a mixture of the two. It posted around the clock and to every single comment pretty much. There was clear differences in posting styles as well

SunsetCocktails · 15/03/2025 21:13

@Psychostates it’s the same poster, Loving Hare. They’ve obviously signed up with a different email and username to post on the same thread, which is still classed as sock puppeting I’m sure. And they still haven’t learned how to spell appreciated….

Psychostates · 15/03/2025 21:16

SunsetCocktails · 15/03/2025 21:13

@Psychostates it’s the same poster, Loving Hare. They’ve obviously signed up with a different email and username to post on the same thread, which is still classed as sock puppeting I’m sure. And they still haven’t learned how to spell appreciated….

God this person/s/machine needs to get a life evidently. Have they been banned now? I'll report if not. The scary thing is they can change and hide their IP addresses, so it would be impossible for MN to prevent until they're on here.

MuckFusk · 15/03/2025 21:19

Psychostates · 15/03/2025 21:08

Agree. They stand out like a sore thumb. There was one a while ago, 'Lovingspare' or 'hare' or something. MN rightly banned them I think, because all of their posts disappeared. I think the consensus was it was a group of trolls using a translator app, or some sort of bot/AI, or likely a mixture of the two. It posted around the clock and to every single comment pretty much. There was clear differences in posting styles as well

Edited

Lovinghare looked like troll farm stuff IMO.

Verdansk85 · 15/03/2025 21:25

Why I Wasted My Time Debating

I made a mistake. I thought I was engaging in a debate—a real exchange of ideas, a battle of reason, logic, and perspective. That was naïve. Because what I walked into wasn’t a debate. It wasn’t a discussion. It was a sermon, and I was the heretic.

You see, some people don’t argue to test ideas, to refine their beliefs, or to understand the world better. No, they argue the way a priest recites scripture—not to be challenged, but to reaffirm their faith. And if you don’t say ‘Amen’ when they expect it, well, then you must be a bot, a liar, or worse, someone who dares to think for themselves.

And so, there I was, trying to discuss the reality of power—how, when the United States decides it wants something, no amount of moral indignation, political rhetoric, or wishful thinking will stand in its way. People love to believe in ideals, in principles, in the fantasy that if they just believe in something hard enough, it will somehow bend the arc of history to their liking. But history doesn’t bend to belief. It bends to power. And the United States has more of it than any idealist could ever dream of.

Canada, the UK, Europe—people like to pretend these places have real autonomy when it comes to the interests of the United States. But the truth? If Washington wants something badly enough, then all the whining in the world won’t change a damn thing. Treaties, alliances, and ‘shared values’ are nothing more than a polite excuse to make it seem like anyone else has a say. But power doesn’t ask for permission. It takes what it wants. And if you think democracy or diplomacy or ‘doing the right thing’ is going to stop that, you’re playing in the minor leagues while the big boys are running the casino.

But try telling that to them. Try pointing out the cold, hard reality of how the world works. You won’t get a counterargument. You won’t get facts, logic, or history. No, you’ll get the same tired mantra: Trump bad. Anyone who disagrees, bot. That’s the level of discourse. That’s the intellectual depth. Because to them, the world is a simple place, where everything boils down to good versus evil, and the side they’ve chosen must always be the righteous one. And if you suggest—just for a moment—that maybe, just maybe, reality is a little more complex, well, then you must be the enemy too.

And so, I wasted my time. I walked into a rigged game, where the only acceptable outcome was total submission to their narrative. I played chess while they played checkers with a board that only has black and white squares. And in the end, what did I gain? Nothing. Except the realization that I was the fool for expecting better.

So I’ll take my loss. I’ll admit my mistake. Hell, I’ll even concede that I was hareloving, naïve, and yes—if it makes them feel better—I suck. But at least I know it.

and the real pickle of it all, in the end you know im right

Tat tar all - British Intelligence Section 7

Maggiethecat · 15/03/2025 21:39

Verdansk85 · 15/03/2025 21:25

Why I Wasted My Time Debating

I made a mistake. I thought I was engaging in a debate—a real exchange of ideas, a battle of reason, logic, and perspective. That was naïve. Because what I walked into wasn’t a debate. It wasn’t a discussion. It was a sermon, and I was the heretic.

You see, some people don’t argue to test ideas, to refine their beliefs, or to understand the world better. No, they argue the way a priest recites scripture—not to be challenged, but to reaffirm their faith. And if you don’t say ‘Amen’ when they expect it, well, then you must be a bot, a liar, or worse, someone who dares to think for themselves.

And so, there I was, trying to discuss the reality of power—how, when the United States decides it wants something, no amount of moral indignation, political rhetoric, or wishful thinking will stand in its way. People love to believe in ideals, in principles, in the fantasy that if they just believe in something hard enough, it will somehow bend the arc of history to their liking. But history doesn’t bend to belief. It bends to power. And the United States has more of it than any idealist could ever dream of.

Canada, the UK, Europe—people like to pretend these places have real autonomy when it comes to the interests of the United States. But the truth? If Washington wants something badly enough, then all the whining in the world won’t change a damn thing. Treaties, alliances, and ‘shared values’ are nothing more than a polite excuse to make it seem like anyone else has a say. But power doesn’t ask for permission. It takes what it wants. And if you think democracy or diplomacy or ‘doing the right thing’ is going to stop that, you’re playing in the minor leagues while the big boys are running the casino.

But try telling that to them. Try pointing out the cold, hard reality of how the world works. You won’t get a counterargument. You won’t get facts, logic, or history. No, you’ll get the same tired mantra: Trump bad. Anyone who disagrees, bot. That’s the level of discourse. That’s the intellectual depth. Because to them, the world is a simple place, where everything boils down to good versus evil, and the side they’ve chosen must always be the righteous one. And if you suggest—just for a moment—that maybe, just maybe, reality is a little more complex, well, then you must be the enemy too.

And so, I wasted my time. I walked into a rigged game, where the only acceptable outcome was total submission to their narrative. I played chess while they played checkers with a board that only has black and white squares. And in the end, what did I gain? Nothing. Except the realization that I was the fool for expecting better.

So I’ll take my loss. I’ll admit my mistake. Hell, I’ll even concede that I was hareloving, naïve, and yes—if it makes them feel better—I suck. But at least I know it.

and the real pickle of it all, in the end you know im right

Tat tar all - British Intelligence Section 7

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

HangryLilacGoose · 15/03/2025 21:47

Well, the scary thing is that there is some truth to that most recent post (clearly not drafted by the same mind that gave us the one world government and intergalactic trade musings).

The US has been allowed to become as powerful as it now is due to the trust that has existed for the last 80 or so years. Europe, Canada and the free world in general need to wake up to that fact if they have not already done so.

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