To suspect the "deal" between the US and Russia Greenland for Ukraine?

[FancyRedRobin]

The way things are shaping up I'm beginning to think the USAs negotiations with Putin were for USA to stand aside and let Putin have part of Ukraine and for Russia to support the US to take Greenland.

Absolutely ridiculous nonsense.
If Greenland needs securing as a key asset it makes far more sense for America and Europe to do it by working together as friends rather than wasting resources fighting each other, which is the inevitable result if America decides to turn its expansionism to Europe and Canada.

Usually those sort of schemes (robbing a post office) end in tears.
Its the sort of mentality of a 19 year old who thinks he understands geo-politics because he stays inside all day playing Civilisation style games. Even the experts on war/politics - Machievelli, Clausewitz, Sun Tzu etc understood this and they weren't pacifists or limp wristed liberal leftys. Poor old Clausewitz has to be the most misunderstood/quoted out of context writer.

Why do we allow posters like this, who support annexation or invasions of NATO allies, on Mumsnet?

Do we allow posts in support of Russian aggression, or similar acts by other hostile foreign nations?

I know it's a relative drop in the ocean, but I hope posts like CaptainRosy's make people think twice about dismissing boycotts against the US.

Trump is already flinching a little on tariffs, given Canada's response.

The US is lining itself up to be the enemy of the free world. Travel and products boycotts DO hurt its economy, and thats about the only thing that Trump and the Republicans respond to.

Make some shopping changes, swap out a few of your US products for UK, European, Canadian or Mexican ones.

Boycott the idiots and make them SQUEAK. They are no friend of ours, not anymore.

It's also high time Twitter was banned.

This is like the Moon all again: where, instead of negotiating or debating as to who had the rights to visit/exploit it, the USA just naturally assumed that it was theirs by default.

The USA hasn't been the only country to have this arrogant mindset in history - we in the UK have so, so much blood on our hands; and as for the whole historical narrative about which white European 'discovered' a landmass that already had large populations of non-white people who had been happily living there for centuries...

However, I think most countries that like to be considered liberal and democratic have now firmly left this mindset in the past and actually act democratic (at least on the surface).

How ironic that the man widely considered the 'leader of the free world' has now begun shamelessly seeking to grab land by force, and give away what was never his to give away, in ways that would make the proudest dictators of history glow with arrogant delight.

I think more and more people are deciding to move away from American products (although it isn’t easy). The Americans are now the bad guys not the good guys

I get that people will cry about sovereignty and territorial integrity, but let’s be real the world is shaped by those who take action, not those who hesitate.

you can absolutely fuck off with this attitude. There is NO EXCUSE for invading another country.

I believe that Trump is trying to make everyone aware of how weak Europe's military is precisely in order that he can move into Greenland. Exactly as stated above, it will be put forward as "this is the only credible alternative to China getting their hands on it".

But Germany at least seem to be taking huge steps in preparing for a scenario whereby the US is no longer a dependable ally. Hopefully the rest of the EU will follow. As Starmer said, we're in a very tricky position in the UK - we're so much more deeply intertwined with the US, I'm not entirely sure how we would/could extricate ourselves.

The biggest problem is that the perception within the US is so wildly different from outside, and many Americans live in almost absolute bubbles.

I also found it very telling that Trump still seems to view Joe Biden as a greater enemy than Putin ( when he was yelling at Zelensky for campaigning for the opposition).

Maybe our best chance is if the US actually collapses as a country.

He wants resources that the U.S. doesn’t currently have, namely fresh water, as the Earth gets hotter. In terms of those resources I would imagine that Greenland and Canada are worth more in the future than the US.

Have you got a link to this speech? I'd be interested in reading it. Thank you.

I'd like to stress that this poster would be content to see you and your families murdered, defending your homeland, in order to secure "American dominance".

Think about that next time you're in the supermarket.

It’s his Ego like Putin and musk .

Baffling that the suggestion you can just take possession of a country because it's useful to you is seen as a robust analysis.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-speech-congress-transcript-751b5891a3265ff1e5c1409c391fef7c

Brexit was the plan to isolate us, making the US our 'friend' and both the UK and the EU weaker.

Russian plan BTW.

He seems u see the impression that has happened and is trying to tell Europe what to do…’eh you aren’t the boss of us pal!’

the Americans all believe that the US pays for our military and there are lots of comments of let’s stop paying and watch them struggle! I think we should cut them off completely.

For avoidance of doubt, I do think @CaptainRosy was correct that large, powerful countries or blocs will be competing to exert influence over both Greenland and Canada before long. Much as I hate to say it, Trump was astute to identify them both as coming foci of interest.

However the way to exert influence is to make mutually beneficial deals, taking into account your trading partners’ concerns. This has exactly nothing to do with Trump’s approach.

Cooperation is useful when it serves our interests. But let’s not pretend that Europe and Canada are always reliable partners. Look at their track record on defense spending, NATO commitments, and global security—they want protection, but they don’t want to pay for it. America is expected to pick up the check while they play moral referee.

Trump’s approach may be blunt, but at least it forces these so-called allies to either step up or admit they’re just passengers. As for the idea that he’s “allied” with Putin—that’s political hysteria, not reality. The U.S. plays power politics. If America securing Greenland means keeping it out of Russia’s hands, what’s your real concern? That the U.S. won’t share the spoils? That’s the European fear not Trump’s flaw.

Expansionism? Let’s not pretend borders are sacred when history is written by those who enforce them. The British Empire, France, Spain, Rome they all expanded because they could. America was founded by those who saw an opportunity and took it. Now, suddenly, we’re supposed to follow different rules?
Would I be fine if someone “took over” the U.S.? Not if we could stop them.

That’s the difference power defends itself, weakness invites conquest. You can have moral debates over coffee, but real leaders play the game as it is, not as they wish it to be. If America raising the stakes makes people uncomfortable, maybe they should question why they aren’t strong enough to do the same.

You’re asking the wrong question. It’s not about making the world feel good about American dominance it’s about whether you prefer U.S. leadership over Russian or Chinese dominance.

The U.S. has its flaws, sure. But if Western democracies decide that America is just as bad as China or Russia, they’re delusional. America plays rough, but it still upholds a global order that benefits those who align with it. Do you really think the alternative a China-led system is going to respect your freedoms more?

You don’t have to “applaud” the U.S., but you might want to ask yourself: If America steps back, who fills the vacuum? And will they let you sit around debating ethical nuances?

Who said anything about tanks rolling in? Control doesn’t always mean conquest. Influence, strategic partnerships, economic leverage these are the tools of modern empire. You don’t need to “own” something outright to own the game.

Also, let’s not be naive. The idea that America interfering in Greenland is “the same” as Russia’s war in Ukraine is absurd. Russia is trying to wipe out a nation’s sovereignty. The U.S. would be securing Greenland’s place in the Western alliance and protecting it from becoming a Chinese satellite state. There’s a difference between strategy and destruction.