To suspect the "deal" between the US and Russia Greenland for Ukraine?

[FancyRedRobin]

The way things are shaping up I'm beginning to think the USAs negotiations with Putin were for USA to stand aside and let Putin have part of Ukraine and for Russia to support the US to take Greenland.

The way things are shaping up is that China has just told Trump to bring it on. He is threatening the world with his deranged meglomania.

The Republicans were whopping and chanting USA! USA! Before he spewed lies at a speech the length of which Castro would have been proud of.

He's surrounded by sycophants and things are looking dire.

The world has become terrifying. The Chinese are eyeing up Taiwan and the islands near Japan, they sent three warships down the east coast of Australia recently and the Australians, who have always relied on a good relationship and security with/from the US are alarmed. I used to be terrified by climate change, clearly that is now on the back burner as rich, insane people destroy the planet. So glad I don't have grandchildren.

The US Supreme Court have a lot to answer for. Thanks to them, Trump thinks he can do whatever he wants

Nothing would surprise me now. Its quite obvious he's a Russian agent of some sort, either they've got something heinous on him or they bailed him out of his many bankruptcies and money issues - probably both. There's so much disinformation around generated by Russia, China just has to sit by and wait (they won't be though).

I wonder what Trump's aim really is. It does start to look like empire building. I suspect he wants Russia as an ally, possibly as a balance against China. But acting against nearest neighbours and old allies is weird.

He said in his speech, he wants America to be the strongest, most powerful force in the world. He wants Canada, the Panama Canal, Greenland and he's renaming oceans.

Instead of looking aghast, the Republicans were leaping up like monkeys and punching the air. All the Democrats did was hold up signs.

A United States of the World with him in charge.

Succinctly summed up. That’s it exactly.

I hear that - but this is where cooperation is key. Instead, Trump acting as a bully to the rest of the West is completely counterproductive. There is nothing really to be gained from alienating Canada, The UK and the EU whilst allying with a proven enemy. That bit frankly does not make sense and smacks of treason if I'm honest. Controlling Greenland can make sense for the reasons you mention but then (as I suspect) to nicely share the resources with his pal Putin will not help the US. Also, Putin is in an alliance with China so it's not that clear cut.

It's expansionism though. The reason doesn't matter. Americans rationalising becoming what they once rebelled against is quite the eyeopener.
And the taking by force as well?

Would you be happy for someone to take over the US? Or are you different and wouldn't "cry" about it.
What I can see is that America is raising the temperature and destabilising things.

Greenland currently belongs to Denmark and that means it's European. Yes the native Greenlanders want independence but do they want to be owned by USA or Russia, maybe not.

Robust analysis 💯

Ensuring American dominance to what end though? For the rest of us non-Americans I mean.

There was a point to us in liberal Western democracies supporting the USA in sometimes unpalatable things so they could remain dominant when the USA was also a Liberal Western democracy. We wanted those values to prevail over the values of China or Russia.

But if the USA has given up on being a liberal democracy, what difference if they get Greenland, or the Arctic or if China or Russia does? If they're going to behave with naked self interest on the world stage, reneging on agreements, bullying their way to economic dominance and terrorising any who disagree with them - then they ARE Russia or China as far as we're concerned. No, we can't stop them taking Greenland by force but as if we're going to applaud it or agree it was strategically necessary! You speak as if its axiomatic that America being the biggest kid in the playground is good for everyone but it really isn't - only if, as the biggest kid, it plays by the rules.

It isnt your country to take though is it? Unless the Greenlanders would welcome the USA with open arms it would be invasion. That’s the same thing King Krasnov Al Capone Trump is currently assisting the Russians with in Ukraine.

We dont know what deals are being struck between the USA and Russia behind closed doors but it is becoming clearer, as events evolve they aren’t likely to be ones that other nations would consider honourable.

@CaptainRosy From my perspective, Greenland isn’t just some frozen rock at the top of the map it’s a strategic necessity that the U.S. can’t afford to ignore. People underestimate how critical it already is to our national security.

And from the perspective of the rest of the world, we never thought it was just a frozen rock, just as we KNOW that it does not belong to the USA. Besides which, who is going to challenge your "national security" given that you've all cozied up to the biggest dictator in the world and appear to now be best buddies?

If you want access to their resources, here's an idea - fucking BUY them! That's what capitalism is supposed to be about, isn't it?

And you know where you can shove your collective war-mongering, expansionist "influence"...? You don't care about the world's supply chain, or anything other than rigid self-interest. You might think the USA is too big to fall. Don't bet on it.

.

What you are saying, is that the USA is now the enemy of democracy again and we should all act accordingly.

We're back to the days of the Sandinistas and Viet Cong. I hope the USA is ready for that. Because I'm sure you can take ground, but I'm not sure you have the will to keep it against an unwilling population. Boots on the ground killing Danes and Canadians?

That’s an astute, hardheaded analysis, @CaptainRosy

However

securing influence =/= taking by force.

I'm sure you can take ground, but I'm not sure you have the will to keep it against an unwilling population.

Here's an idea - they could take some advice from the leader of the Ukraine about that?

American exceptionalism = we can do bad things but they are not bad if we do them.

If America walks like a despotic duck and quacks like one etc...

So USA invading Greenland, good.
China invading Greenland, bad.

Give me your lunch money before someone steals it from you

I’m Canadian. Fuck off with your shitty comments like this:
I get that people will cry about sovereignty and territorial integrity

This isn’t about expansionism it’s about ensuring American dominance

😬

Absolutely. It's just a global version of plain old theft with menaces: somebody owns something that you want and, instead of accepting that it simply isn't yours or otherwise seeing if they might be open to selling it to you for a mutually agreeable price, just powering in and taking it from them by force.

It's no different in principle from taking a gun into a post office and demanding that they empty the contents of the safe into your bag.

People are using flowery words to euphemise it, but we all know what it really boils down to.