To think Trump is right

[Donotpanicoknowpanic]

Watching the press conference last night which descended into an argument

I can't help think Trump was right and made good points

Thousands of troops are dying and being seriously injured every month

Trump wants it to stop

There are thousands of people who have children alive today who will not be alive tomorrow because of this war

They are clearly in a stalemate and soldiers are now dying untill peace terms are made as no side can win on the battlefield

Trump as brutal as it sounds was being realistic about what peace would be like

Ukraine has to be realistic

If Ukraine sign the rare earth deal with America then America will have a stake in Ukraine and they should then get a better security deal

Trump has not agreed what that is yet, it's clear he wants the European's to form a big part of that

The European's want American troops and for good reason

But this has to stop and the only way it will stop is by peace negotiations

And these have to be realistic and Trump is saying it as it is

The war could stop tomorrow if Putin backed down. Funnily enough Trump doesn't seem to see that as a solution.

What happened was a disgrace, and funnily enough OP the majority of people have a different view to yours.

That reporter who was so rude asking Zelenskyy why he didn't wear a suit, he was so disrespectful - the whole thing was a set up to pile onto Zelenskyy. Putin must have been rolling around laughing.

And if Zelenskyy's military garb was ok with her late Majesty, it was certainly ok for America. Trump / Vance the infantile terrible twins behaved abominably. Would they have told off Fidel Castro for not wearing a suit? I doubt it.

The whole set up yesterday was an utter disgrace.

Can you tell me who launched an invasion in Feb 2021?

Just more Putin apologists.

Was the Falklands war started by the Falklands? Should the UK have made a deal with Argentina?

Zelensky was a fool to publicly try to embarrass the Americans.

I just watched the video again. There was a lot of ignorant, self-aggrandizing rambling from Trump. A lot of trying to put the blame for Putin's behaviour on Biden. Eventually Zelenskyy had had enough, and explained that in fact, Russia first invaded in 2014. That's when it all exploded. To be fair, Zelenskyy could have acted more humble and held his tongue. But that would have meant swallowing a hell of a lot of nonsense, which would have made him look weak, and disloyal to previous American administrations. He obviously felt comfortable or determined enough to try to voice the truth.

Oh, bless you OP
If only it was that uncomplicated.

You can't sit down with an aggressor and agree peace. If a man was raping you constantly, and offered to stop raping you if you agreed to have sex every Monday and Friday. Hardly an acceptable outcome.

It will stop at a negotiated peace unless one side wins outright.

As it is unlikely that either side will win outright-then there will have to be a peace treaty.

Whether that happens now or years down the line when European and British boots-maybe conscripted boots-is not a matter of if but when.

If the war drags on for several more years and then one side sues for peace, it will have been at a high cost-not least to this country, as our PM has shown his willingness to keep paying and to put our children in the line of fire.

So, it is better to embrace what will surely be inevitable and have a peace treaty now.

Of course, if one side doesn't want that then the war will continue until there is a winner.

Rights and wrongs aside, wars end by peace treaty of by one side being an outright winner. They always have done and this war will too but until one of those things happen,in this particular war- lives will be lost and economies will bear the brunt.

It doesn't-in one sense-matter who started it-because the result will be the same. Peace treaty or outright winner.

Can Ukraine be an outright winner? Difficult if America withdraws its support but if Europe increases their support-in money and boots on the ground-then maybe. That, of course, will mean, Europe in a full war against Russia and her allies.

That will be at a cost to us here in the UK and it is foolish to think that the longer it drags on, we won't feel that with a wrecked economy and conscription.

So, to answer your question-it will end at a table where peace treaties are signed or it will end with one side surrendering. There really isn't a third way.

It's not about a " finishing school" their parents sent them to.
It's about thrashing problems out behind closed doors and not hectoring and bullying someone in front of the world's press.

It was indeed.

Trump wants to be a powerful man, he's no time to support smaller nations like this.

You need to fact check your figures.

At the end of the day these are the options for this conflict.

1. Carry on as we are for an indefinite period of time.
2. Come to some for. Of ceasefire/peace agreement.
3. Declare war on Russia and actually join the conflict.
4. Up our help for Ukraine which likely will inevitably lead to point 3.
5. Ukrainian eventual capitulation

Whatever happens after is anyone's guess but these are the options. Those that are hell bent on not going for point 2 (I get it we don't want to appease Putin) but what now is the other realistic option to take. Those that refuse point 2, just say Putin needs to withdraw which isn't realistic. Now is the time to be realistic.

Fine, if we don't want to accept point 2, But there needs to be some form of plan to proceed forward. Not just let's carry on fighting an unwinnable war. What is the end game plan?

@Valeriekat how did Zelensky embarrass USA? What should he have done? Not sure he was the one embarrassing USA

Putin and Trump are like Stalin and Hitler over Poland. They just want to carve Ukraine up between them for their own purposes.

You can’t separate the message from the delivery. It was an ambush.

Would Trump be looking for peace if China annexed its coasts and then invaded and took large swathes of the US by force? Of course not. It’s ridiculous.

Trump is behaving like a toddler. He claimed he’d resolve the war in one day in his pre-election campaign and is now throwing his toys out because people won’t do what he says. The two on one approach, which appeared staged to me, was painful to watch. It was bullying plain and simple, in an environment where the US were already in charge. Zelenskyy was just a pawn.

Putin is rubbing his hands in glee. What if he thinks he can now take large swathes of Poland, Sweden, France? That’s the message, and it’s a frightening one.

I also think Trump feels intimidated by Zelenskyy who has shown he has balls the size of melons and continues to demonstrate true bravery and statesmanship.

US citizens - what’s the lowdown there, how are people feeling about this, especially republicans?

Which is why we shouldn't do it with anyone ever again.

Thousands of soldiers died in WW2. Should we have just given in to the nazis to make it stop….?

If Trump really wanted “peace” then he would tell Russia to stop invading another country. Instead he’s trying to gain an advantage for the USA.

What do you mean 'if we don't want to accept point 2'?

What makes you think that Putin wants to accept point 2?

To negotiate peace you need someone who is respectful towards both sides

Hard talking yes but respect and compassion , and ego-less

If Trump wants to sacrifice Ukraine and Europe to disrupt the Russia China relationship to weaken China, then he needs to offer something not bully them. I think it shows how Europe needs to regroup as an economic power block and start thinking about key players such as Turkey.

So peace at any cost ?...and when Trump says so ??

Do you really think, that Zelenskyy should just agree to peace without getting a cast iron agreement from Putin that this won't all just start again when he gets bored??

Or that it's right that Putin has demanded that the peace agreement states every NATO member must agree to deny entry to Ukraine at all cost....

Or is it just that Zelenskyy said that Trump could have the minerals that Ukraine has, but he didn't want to just hand them over ... but wanted what was best for his people first???

Sorry, but Americans don't have the right to bully other countries to capitulate to what THEY believe the best for them...

Help during wartime, shouldn't come with caveats surely ???

I think Trump and Vance were outrageous but it was just granstanding and words which if Zelensky didn't bite, would have blown over.

Ukraine has lost a lot more by the meeting being handled this way - if Zelensky had been a bit more humble (and understandably that was hard in the face of such preplanned and flagrant disrespect), he could have managed the situation and kept the US on board. Europe is not united enough and does not have enough military power to deter Russia. We needed the US involvement.

Another observation is that Brexit has really screwed Europe over in these situations. The UK still had soft power while in the EU and so in situations like these, the UK's position used to be an important consideration given their influence over Europe. It's all a mess really.