First dates... splitting the bill.

[NovemberMorn]

Is it unreasonable to expect the male to pay the full bill on a first date dining out?
I watch the programme 'First Dates' on TV, and it amazes me how, in this day and age, so many women either don't offer to split the food bill, or mutter something half-heartedly as the man gets his cc out, obviously not expecting to pay a penny.

Same!

Made poor choices?

The feminist men who give all the chat about women's equality? 😭😭 they were definitely a poor choice

I'm a lovely woman tbh and a man should want to treat me - other women can do as they please

A feminist man who believes in women's equality is non-negotiable for me.

Obviously some men will give that sort of chat but not actually believe it and still be twats.

Why should a man want to treat you, simply because he's male and you're female?

I had always paid my way, absolutely always.

I am now in the middle (hopefully!) of some stretched times, single mother, struggling with some earning capacity vs health issues. I was not looking to date at all, but an old boyfriend got in touch and asked me out - I was quite honest and said I just didn't have the financial bandwidth for dating right now. He said not to worry about such things, and we are going out - he pays for probably 85% of dates, and the ones I pay for are at the modest end. As a once very independent woman, I had always thought I'd hate this imbalance, but he is so kind about it, and it actually feels lovely to be cared about in this way. Hopefully I will get back on my feet in due course, but it has altered my thinking a little on this, and my thoughts on what I'd advise my teen son (14) when he's ready to date. I kind of feel it is chivalrous and gentlemanly.
Perhaps it is easier because we dated in my previous life when I did pay my own way, before I had kids and other life battles.

The best feminists I've met are not thinking about feminism tbh, both man and woman 😕

I think that a decent man who doesn't perv on teens and insists on taking care of you because he sees you as precious is about right

Ime a man that sees you as precious and deserving of the best will insist on paying and open doors for you etc

I used to be saying the opposite at 16 😭 but life has taught me different

I am not sure what your first sentence means? I think about feminism all the time tbh. Not sure what perving on teens has to do with the discussion.

I would certainly like to be taken care of emotionally (and DP does that very well). Don't need to be taken care of financially. Dislike it when men do the physical protection stuff too.

I don't see why you're more precious and deserving of the best than any man you choose to date.

AFAIAC women who think men ought to pay for them are just sponging.

The strongest and best women I've encountered don't consider themselves feminists tbh - but they've always been fair, intelligent and driven

As for the men, the men I've dealt with who've called themselves feminists, and insisted on going Dutch all turned out to be shit

they also would bend over backwards justifying dating a teenager as a grown man, in terms of feminism. Just nonsensical

So for me, a man who insists on paying on a date and treating a woman as though she precious etc is the best kind of man - and paying on a first date would be an indicator of that

Heres a Mr 50/50 further down the line.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5271891-stingy-bf-or-is-it-me?page=1

What's fair about expecting to freeload off your date because he's male?

My brother said he learnt to only do a simple walk in a well populated area + a coffee for the first date. He says too many woman abuse the whole first date man pays for dinner chivalry.

It's the bollocks..

They're called a coin purse, it don't mean they got coins in...

But that's the only reason I can think that some moochy fuckers want a bloke to pay for them.
There can be no other reason.

Well, you seem to have met some twat men so sorry for that. The best men I've known have been feminists. I have also met "feminist" men who were along the lines of your dates but that's nothing to do with feminism, it's to do with them lying.

My experience is the opposite. Men who wanted to pay for me, especially the ones who tried to override what I said about splitting the bill, tended to have weird fixed ideas about men being providers (and women being nurturers). They were also quite domineering, were put out when I wanted to take the lead or correct them or express a different opinion, and tended to think of women like slot machines - put money in, get sex out.

I guess we've all had different experiences!

I think it depends.

If I have no intention of seeing them again I would absolutely insist on at least paying for myself, and if it was just a drink / informal food I'd offer to pay for all.

If I think it went well, I usually like to the man to offer to pay although I would always pay for myself on the first date.

On the other hand it puts me off if the first date is in a pub / bar and the man doesn't offer to buy the first drink. Even if I'd then offer back.

There's a word for paying for time with a woman.

Split. What have you done for him to 'owe' you, and vice versa.

Maybe.

But i have been in the position before of having a good disposable income, and my best friend from when we were at primary was a single mother of two, with no maintenance from the father. I took her out several times a year, on my dime, so what? I am now in a similar boat, and a male friend is doing similar for me. I didn't make my friend feel obliged to fuck me!

But a strong independent woman who doesn't think about feminism is someone who doesn't think about other women and how they might not have had the opportunities she's had. That's absolutely nothing to be proud of.

I wasn’t sure what the voting meant, I put yabu as in yes it’s unreasonable to expect the man to pay but now I’m second guessing.
If I’d like to see them again, I’ve always offered to pay and say he can get it next time or if he insisted then I would get the next one. If I wouldn’t want to see them again, I’d insist on splitting.

I don’t think it shouldn’t be expected. But if he didn’t offer I would wonder if he liked me / wanted to see me again. So I wouldn’t send the thanks for dinner it was great to meet you text when I got home. I would wait and see if he contacted me.

If I was dating to find a relationship I think a coffee is a good first date and that doesn’t really matter.

If dating for some fun later on that night, if he didn’t pay I would just go home on my own.

But if you are in the early stages of dating and going out a lot it would be too expensive to continually be paying for someone else.

I split the bill on a first date. I'd not expect a free meal just because I've got tits and a fanny 🙄

I was exactly the same OP. If I didn’t like them and they offered to pay I would refuse because it wasn’t fair. If I liked them I would let them pay while saying I would pay the next time. If they didn’t ask me out again then meh, at least I got a free meal.

I once went on a date with a man- we went for a drink in the pub, and while he seemed nice enough there wasn’t a spark. He asked if I wanted to get some dinner- as he wasn’t awful I agreed, hoping the evening would change (this was my mistake I should have just called it!)

Anyway we went for dinner, and it became clear that we weren’t a match. I politely ate up and we agreed we’d split the bill, I then popped to the loo. When I came back, he’d paid the lot! I was annoyed, as we’d already agreed to split, but I thought I’d just write it off as a bad date and get out of there.

When we got outside and I went to say bye, he made a pass at me. I declined, and he got quite annoyed, and it became quite clear that he felt I owed him because he’d picked up the tab. I managed to get away but he was quite persistent for a while- it was quite scary.

Id have always split the tab before anyway, but now I definitely would!

my sister would never go on a date with a man that didn't pay and never has (they've all paid) she still laughs about the time i went on a date and he didn't pay. we were both 16 😂