First dates... splitting the bill.

[NovemberMorn]

Is it unreasonable to expect the male to pay the full bill on a first date dining out?
I watch the programme 'First Dates' on TV, and it amazes me how, in this day and age, so many women either don't offer to split the food bill, or mutter something half-heartedly as the man gets his cc out, obviously not expecting to pay a penny.

If a man's idea of feminism begins and ends with bill splitting he's not much of a catch.

Haven't RTFT.

I expect the man to pay on the first date. As does every woman in my social circle. If a man doesn't pay on the first date then there is no second date.

I don't want a traditional relationship but I still expect the man to pay on the first date. It's a good way to weed out stingy men or men who don't have financial security - two things I want to avoid in a potential partner.

Agree.
i see so many comments how this approach is ‘wrong’ … and few years down the line we see what a lot of threads are here about:

• he doesn’t pay for xyz
• i had to take out of my savings during maternity the cover my share of bills
• he doesn’t take me anywhere/ buy me birthday/ Xmas etc gifts

and all sorts of other scenarios 🤦🏻‍♀️ A man who is generous with his money is usually generous with his time and feelings too ime.

I don’t think a man who accepts that a woman is willing to pay her way on the first date is necessarily stingy thereafter. All of my boyfriends and now DH have been very generous in all respects, but respected my insistence on splitting the first date (and the next few thereafter, until we were in a relationship, when we could take it in turns).

This thread has made me consider why I was so insistent upon splitting when dating in the early days. I think it was also because my social and work circles mean I have basically always gone out with wealthy men (those are just the men I meet/met, not planned) either inherited or earned and so I think it was an additional signal that I had no intention of being a “kept woman”, and that my financial independence mattered and would always matter to me.

Am almost certainly over-analysing the motives of 20-something me at this stage 😂

I always offer but I do expect him to pay if he asked me out as we aren’t students anymore. I would pay the second time if there was a second date. It’s not about the money but more about their generosity and wanting to provide/impress. With friends we usually just take turns too rather than split it. One caveat is that if I don’t want to see him ever again I will insist on splitting.

I’d always offer to pay my share.

We both know that's not what the point of this thread is. Of course anyone can offer to pay for a meal for a friend, or someone they fancy.

This thread is about the expectation. Those people who deem a man unworthy of them unless they spend money. The "if he ONLY takes me for a walk in the park, or for coffee date, he won't be seeing me again" crowd.
You are telling him that your presence has a price.

No wonder people above are saying it then feels like it comes with an obligation for sex. You are telling him 'this is a demonstration of how you will treat me in a relationship... i expect this'. Would you be surprised if he had an expectation for a reciprocal demonstration (sex)?

Are by there many men who believe the man should pay who don’t also have a traditional mindset though?

I don’t believe there are. Surely your logic works towards women too?

But as I said it’s all personal preference - each to their own.

I don’t care if the bloke pays and I also don’t care about splitting the bill.

I definitely do not agree with proscribed gender roles though.

This is me, without the vulgar language though!

This is how I have always done it too

The mental gymnastics in these threads of people who are fundamentally unwilling to pay their own way to make that in to a sign that the man is tight it's always hilarious.

Just admit you're tight and love the idea of a free meal and get pissed off if you have to put your hand in your pocket.

If a woman expects a man she barely knows to pay for her she isn’t much of a catch.

Absolutely none of this is relevant to men paying for dates!

In fact I would hypothesise that more women who sit back and let men pay for the dating period probably find themselves in relationships with unequal access to finances down the line!

Yeah to give some balance to that argument- my ex-DH was very generous on early dates, showered me with gifts and flowers, insisted on picking up the bill. Turned out to be financially abusive once we married.

My current partner we have split things since day dot (of course if eg its someone’s birthday or the other just fancies treating that’s different) and its the most equal partnership I’ve ever been a part of. Two years ago I lost my job unexpectedly and he, without question, covered both our incomes for three months and didn’t once grumble. My ex would have never.

I've always split, hate being paid for.
Firstly I don't want that dynamic
Secondly most of them hope it's buying them something more..

In my experience, the person who suggested the date has always paid. When I have been invited on a date, I have always offered to cover my share and I have always been told "no this is a date" / "no I invited you" or similar. So I would be shocked if someone invited me on a date and didn't pay for it.

@Crushed23 Likewise, maybe your date wants to also "weed out stingy women or those who don't have financial security?"

@TheFatCatsWhiskers1 And all of this discrimination will continue if we as women act like lap dogs and allow men to keep "providing" for us.

Coffee? No problem with one person getting that.

Dinner? Not fine. Should be split.

This is generally how it works with friends and I'd expect the same.

Ah yes of course, it's women's fault isn't it. You sound like Andrew Tate.

I don't know any woman who expects a man to provide for her. Oddly enough it hasn't stopped them being discriminated against, financially screwed over or subjected to sexism, misogyny and abuse.

@TheFatCatsWhiskers1 Yes we are partly to blame if we won't pay for the food we eat with a stranger! Why not? Would you go to a restaurant and not pay.your bill?
Come on, lots of women don't work because they rely on men.

Wowsers. For generations women strove to have a place at the table and to raise daughters that not only would be treated as equals to men but believed that they were equal to men.

Yet, so many of us today are seemingly longing for a return to the 1950s - judging men by their financial standing and willingness to spend. The lure of traditional courtship.

But do we want what came with men opening doors for us? Societal pressure to maintain a size 6 figure, expectation to be immaculately presented at all times, careers ending at 30, second class status in both the home and society.

There are very many women in East Asia, Eastern Europe and Latin America that have men pay for the first and following dates. I am sure that they would trade chivalry for a life long career and financial independence, and I for one am not looking backwards.

I'll pay for my own food, thank you very much.

@FrauPaige EXACTLY this 👏

Same (to your first paragraph anyway!).

A man paying for my dinner or drinks when he barely knows me isn't being generous. He's trying to show off, or fulfil a masculine role he thinks he should play, or buy me. Generosity comes later - it can only come later, when you know someone well enough to treat them as an individual, not as a woman-shaped cipher.

On first dates I always paid more attention to generosity of feeling and generosity of spirit. When it comes down to it I don't actually need financial generosity because I can earn my own money. If I was to enter into any relationship at all, it would have been because a man brought joy and emotional support into my life. It amazes me that so many women consider a man's wallet their litmus test and rarely, if ever, mention his personality.