First dates... splitting the bill.

[NovemberMorn]

Is it unreasonable to expect the male to pay the full bill on a first date dining out?
I watch the programme 'First Dates' on TV, and it amazes me how, in this day and age, so many women either don't offer to split the food bill, or mutter something half-heartedly as the man gets his cc out, obviously not expecting to pay a penny.

I never called specific posters that, we were talking about the collective, the entirety of Western women.

You called women 'lap dogs.' Short memory as well as temper? I thought you were off to work.

I feel for yours!! Poor man!

I admit your life choice is very different to mine but that’s what equality and feminism is about, giving women choices in life.

Women fought hard to have the right to choose a less traditional role and were still fighting but that shouldn’t mean that those who still prefer that role shouldn’t have that valid choice.

Women are each others own worst enemies. Rather than tearing each other down for following different paths, we should be celebrating the fact those paths are available now. Our mothers didn’t have the choices we do. My 80 year old mum says she’s envious that my sister and I had the sane freedom of choice that my brother had - the 3 of us have very different lives but we had those choices that she didn’t.

Men don’t tear each other down the way women do - until we can get past that criticism of each other, we will still be fighting to achieve real equality.

This 🙌

Her offensive post has been deleted 👏

Is that what you have to resort to, reporting comments you don't like because you can't win the debate.
My post wasn't offensive to anyone on here, it was a general comment in context to the discussion. Can you review this @mumsnet

And what of your offensive posts everychild?

I was not the default parent, it was a mutual decision reached by taking the sensible option. My husband earns £400k pa, I made £30k. No brainer.

I don't care how my decision impacts on the collective, I covered that in previous comments. I care about my family not a bunch of randomers. What is your solution? To force women who don't want to work into the workplace, that would make for very productive members of staff and their own families. You should know, judging from your other posts.

Yet you advocate for women's rights whilst attempting to remove their freedom to choose and call them 'lap dogs' if they don't work.

The way women are viewed by potential employers is down to the fact that most women want to take the full maternity period, many don't want to go back to work at all and even more go PT as that is what works for their families. You work PT yourself and have the audacity to bring up the gender pay gap! Really?

Ways in which a man has impressed me on a first date: kindness, intelligence, humour, good ethics, respect for me and what I have to say, good taste, curiosity about the world around him, treats others around us with courtesy, the perfect but rare blend of confidence and humility, good in bed.

His ability to pay for drinks or dinner is such a meaningless, low priority amongst the many, many traits I'm assessing him for. It's value-neutral. It's not a reflection of his character in any way.

And as I specifically want to weed out "traditional" men, why would I go along with their old-fashioned hang-ups about how men and women should be? I think man = provider, woman = homemaker is nonsense, so if he's stuck on that we're not compatible and it's best to end the date asap.

Yep, probably best.

I've been married for a long time, but I'd expect a man taking me on a first date to be making an effort to make me feel special, so yeh, he should pay. If I asked him I'd pay.

@LaceApplique As I've stated previously, I'm not engaging with anybody that refers to posters on here in the disgusting way you did. It's why your post was deleted by MN.

My post was deleted because you reported it, as you were losing the debate. I asked MNHQ to review the comment. I have nothing to hide.

Don't attempt to gaslight me or other PP. I did not refer to anyone on here in anyway, we were talking about the collective. It's ok for you to call women names though? You have no higher moral ground here.

It's obvious you are holding on to that deleted comment as an excuse to 'not engage' to save you from having to answer for your sexist comments or for the fact I have exposed you.

Did you do shared parental leave or not?

It's disgusting that you have effectively told women who took maternity they were just 'default' parents and it impacts the collective, when you did the same! Then lied about it.

@LaceApplique Let's see what MNHQ do...
Not sure they'd delete a non-offensive post 🤔

Did you do shared parental leave or not? Why are you guilt tripping SAHM?

It's been fascinating looking this up, I wanted to see the psychology behind why someone would take such an issue with SAHM and I've come to the conclusion you're a disgruntled ex SAHM.

Quoting a few of your other posts:

'My husband is the main wage earner.'
vs
'I returned to work as the higher earner'

Which was it?

'The controlling bastard had stopped me from working. I had to return to work sharpish which actually was right. My child, my equal financial responsibility.'
vs
'In my 20s and 30s I accepted that many extra hours was just "a part of the job" but I'm questioning that now, and the job is certainly far more challenging than it was when I first started out.'

Which was it? You were either 'forced' to be a SAHM or you were putting in extra hours at work?

'I'm 44 and totally exhausted, and that's with only teaching directly part-time in primary (currently Y6).'

'I'm incredibly fortunate in that we have no childcare costs as my amazing mum does a lot of the school runs and after-school care, bless her.'

What can we deduce?

You have been a SAHM at some point in your life. You have taken full maternity because your DH was the higher earner. You do work PT hours and are fortunate enough to not have to pay for childcare when you are working, as your mum does it.

Yet you came riding in here on a moral high horse to slate other SAHM for their decisions; decisions which you made yourself; many of whom may or may not have had the luxury of a mother than runs around after them.

The question remains; Why did you prop up the patriarchy like that?

@everychildmatters ah you’re pulling the I’m not willing to engage card because you’ve been caught lying.

I wouldn’t bother with this any further @LaceApplique. The other poster has made herself look an absolute fool.

No - I don't respond to people who call me a bitch 😀

And to clarify...all.is correct...I've been married twice!!

Well i was the bread winner in my marriage and also the one who had an affair so is that feminist enough for you

So yet again women are expected to worry about every other fucker.
When do women get to do something for themselves
When they are bringing up children AND working
When they are guiding teens caring for elderly parents AND working
When they are being expected to or provide childcare for their grandchildren while STILL working.
When do women get time for themselves.
Some of us didnt swallow the having it all bullshit and knew it really meant DOING it all

And on top of all this now we are being expected to worry about what random other women who we dont even know think Fuck that.

Well, this thread has certainly moved on from 'should a woman expect a man to foot the meal bill'. 😆

I was just thinking the same thing.

You know full well I didn't call you that! But we've established you like lying.

i live in a culture where a man would be insulted by a woman offering to pay and i wouldn't even broach the subject. just the way it is and it's all fine and nobody feels oppressed or hard done by

@@LaceApplique Oh dear, it would appear you've had yet another post deleted. Clearly you can't have an adult discussion without resorting to abuse. You are a very angry person, aren't you?
Once again, to clarify to everyone else, you referred to the posters on here as "a bunch of anonymous random bitches."