First dates... splitting the bill.

[NovemberMorn]

Is it unreasonable to expect the male to pay the full bill on a first date dining out?
I watch the programme 'First Dates' on TV, and it amazes me how, in this day and age, so many women either don't offer to split the food bill, or mutter something half-heartedly as the man gets his cc out, obviously not expecting to pay a penny.

Feeling 'cheapened and dirty' sounds a bit extreme to me, though I get you always want to pay your way.
Do you think the guy may feel you are indebted to him somehow if he pays?

I would always offer, I would let the man pay IF I liked him and I knew I would be seeing him again.

I don't date now (long married) but even back in the day, I liked to pay my way ...even though boyfriends often earned a lot more than I did at the time.

It’s a ridiculous double standard. Men must prove their worth and interest by paying for everything while women sit back?
Nah not an ideal for me.
Apparently it’s only a good look for a man to be generous and it’s totally okay for women to be tight as fuck!

Depends. If someone asked if I'd like to go out for dinner with them, then that could be interpreted as splitting the bill. If they asked to take me out, then that's then paying. Male or female.

I doubt that's often the case nowadays.
It always takes me back when I see women look the other way, fiddle with their hair, or go off to the loo, when the bill arrives.

Over the years though I have seen posts on MN about men not paying on a first date where the follow on posters have said this was cheap of them and that if they are tight now, what would they be like in a relationship? Etc. So IME many women do actually want a man to pay and take it negatively if he does not. Many women then talk about things being even handed etc, but I am not sure they mean it.

Do you think the guy may feel you are indebted to him somehow if he pays?

That's exactly how some men think. I've met plenty of them. I've heard plenty of them talk about it.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/i-bought-your-drinks-so-you-owe-me-sex-why-do-some-men-believe-dating-is-a-transaction_uk_5cf6a9cce4b0a1997b724e30

I don't doubt some feel like this...hopefully they don't get a second date.

I get even a hint of that attitude, I don't see them again and communication ceases.

I worked in a pub for a while, a pub next to a football ground. I also worked in an office connected to a warehouse and a manufacturing shop.

I've known at least 500 men through those jobs.

I've over heard things in break rooms and bars that a lot of others haven't.

"women have no idea how much men hate them." Is very very true.

I agree, it's all in the wording. If I really liked someone I'd say "can I take you out" and I'd be fully ready to pay for them (although I'd also accept half. In this situation I wouldn't accept them paying). If a man asked to take me out, I'd offer but expect them to pay. If they asked me if I wanted to go out then I'd want to split the bill.

If I couldn't see things going further I would split the bill, but if I could then he can pay 🤣🤭

This^

Very rude! There was 1 last night who didn't even make a effort to say 'are you sure' and she didn't want to see him again!

I can't even watch first dates because of the bill splitting part. Some of the women are excruciating about it.

I was happy to allow DH to pay when we were dating if we went out for a meal with wine because he insisted and earned a lot more than me and I had 3 DC to afford. I used to pay if we went to the cinema or sometimes to bowling which were cheaper. He still likes to pay for meals out now after 19 years of marriage even though we now earn about the same. He says he enjoys treating me. I often buy him clothes because I like to see him wearing stuff I've chosen. As long as both are happy I don't see a problem.

I always find it weird that the couples have to pay for their own meals on the First Dates series! Especially when some people have travelled hundreds of miles. And you can tell it’s not cheap by the way they look shocked when they read the bill!

Is it all just for TV and they don’t actually pay?

Outdated bullshit…women can’t bang on about wanting everything the same as men and then pick and choose things like that.

40 something me absolutely would insist on splitting the bill. But back when I was dating, 20 something me didn’t always feel confident enough to assert what I wanted when a man was being insistent (and that went for lots of things really).

That said, I don’t know that people behave how they normally would when nervous and surrounded by cameras. And the women who go on First Dates probably are not your average 21st century feminist either.

I agree, if both are happy.
Sometimes, though, on the first dates programme that I mentioned, the woman is so unconcerned that the food and wine bill is pretty expensive, (and I know one of the restaurants where it's filmed, and it really is an expensive one) I think an offer would be welcome....and probably, in most cases, refused.

But at least she would have offered.

I think it probably depends on how the date was arranged.

If one person invites the other out, I think that the inviter should expect to pay (though I also think that the invitee should offer to split it). A first date doesn't have to be expensive. Meeting for a coffee or even a simple walk in the park that doesn't cost anything at all would be perfectly acceptable options. If I were dating again (heaven forbid!) I'd far rather do something like that than go out for an expensive meal.

I've been married for over 30 years so don't really know how online dating works, but I assume that both parties are equally involved in the setting up of the date. In that case neither party is inviting the other out in the traditional sense and it's more a mutual agreement to go out. In that case I think going 50:50 is the right thing to do.

If a man didn't pay for me, I wouldn't see him again. Our values wouldn't be aligned.

It’s so out dated! Of course they should split it… if I asked someone out I would pay or offer to but presumably if you see them again then they would reciprocate…
There was a woman on recently who not in my thought she’d been in a relationship with a ghost ( 😂 ) but sat at the end LOOKING at the bloke when the bill was put on the table clearly expecting him to pay - cue awkward silence, but he did - and then she ( woman who’d just broken up with a GHOST ) turned him down 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Fucking hell. I’m so glad I’m gay because this 1950s shite doesn’t apply.

I asked DS 18 if he would pay for dinner on a first date when we were watching First Dates recently.

He said absolutely if I was being filmed

Mmm. Well that’s the problem. If you let a bloke pay then there’s a subconscious expectation that he’s owed. Thats not the way modern relationships should be.
I paid, So I’m owed…

It always surprises me too and it's especially bad when the woman has the man pay then doesn't want to see him again - otherwise it could be an "I'll pay the next time" scenario which is fine.