To be horrible to my four year old?

[appleandcat]

My four year old is a complete pain at the moment.He argues with everything I say and I mean everything. It’s literally being argumentative for the sake of it. It’s very draining and to be honest a bit depressing having everything you say disagreed with (I’ll say something like ‘I’m just nipping up the stairs!’ and he’ll say hourchily ‘you’re NOT going up the stairs.’)

So - I lost it a few days ago and I’m not proud of it but I screamed my head off at him, told him he was making me miserable and that I hated spending time with him, no one would want to be his friend. Horrible words and I did apologise for them but the thing is that it worked and he stopped arguing with me and whining at me.

Now we’re back to ‘normal.’ I have read the books and I’ve tried the techniques and all go ignored. And I’m actually wondering if I need to be a hell of a lot harsher and maybe that roaring out is what he needs. It’s certainly what my parents would have done: but I grew up with no confidence and I obviously don’t want that!

He is fine at nursery. So no idea what’s going on with him.

They’re asking if his other parent is involved.

Honestly, I think it depends on your child. The do's and don'ts tend to be based on children being a homogenous lump who will react to parental styles in the same way. In reality there are children for whom that would be water off a ducks back, they'd not care at all for your words and would carry on regardless. Others for whom it would hit home to know how they made you feel and who would want to ammend their behaviour so you didn't feel upset or angry. Others who would stop because they didn't like the shouting, but for whom it had no long term harmful effect. Others still who would always remember their mum as saying they were too nasty to have friends. I think its important to know your child very well when you decide what's appropriate.

Four yr olds can be hard!! I told mine off this morning for being unkind to me and he apologized. I’m very clear with my children and explained that being rude will mean people don’t want to spend time with my 4 year old. He then corrected his behaviour. Mine needs really clear firm boundaries and repeated as much as needed. Really trying to stop the shouting in my house. I grew up in a home and family where shouting was the norm. Trying to break that habit and it’s hard but try to calm yourself before speaking to your 4 year old. I find in the moment saying ‘you are being unkind and I won’t continue to speak to you unless you stop’ or in your example ‘you just said you do not want an ice cream and so we are not having one now’ and then offering again at a later point most effective. Trying to teach mine that words have meaning. I don’t think what you said was overly harsh for a one off.

My son goes through cycles of this. Just when I think I can't take it anymore he goes back to normal. I tell him he's being quite rude and upsetting me but overall I think it's best to just ride it out.

Well he's not going to forget that. Poor child.

No I did actually… what it’s coming down to is whether I believe what she initially said she said or if I believe what she later changed it to after backlash.

It worked once. You snapped. The element of surprise worked in your favour. Don't do it again. The damage will show up later. You'll also push him away and he won't come back.

My mother was happy to get into it and really verbally lash me in addition to screaming at me from when I was 3 and up. I was treated as an equal, I suppose, but she never tried to rise above. It worked on the spot but it never really solved anything long term and I internalised- and remembered or certainly was affected by - a lot of what was said. I am me, my problems are my own but she didn't help.

I can't offer you a solution, I'm not saying you can't ever get cross and have a moment but I don't think a deliberately harsh tone will work long term.

Have name changed for this. You sound like my mother. She behaved like you and said something similar to me when I was 3. It's never left me in fact it's a vivid scene in my head that rears it's ugly head every so often. I've since gone no-contact with her. Anyone downplaying your behaviour as frustration or discipline and making excuses needs to stop and think again. It's does damage.

“So - I lost it a few days ago and I’m not proud of it but I screamed my head off at him, told him he was making me miserable and that I hated spending time with him, no one would want to be his friend”

He’ll remember that and it will play over and over in his mind every time he has a normal “falling out” with a classmate or friend in school.

If this were me I'd have a "don't talk back / argue with grown ups / parents / mummy" (as you see fit) rule. If he breaks the rule then he gets whatever punishment rule breaking gets in your house. In my house I'd say you don't argue back to mummy. If he did, I'd give him a warning. If he did it again, he'd go in time out.

Things like rudeness over ice cream get one single chance. If he says he doesn't want one, he doesn't get one. He will scream and cry, but probably won't do it again.

I do think a lot of this hangs on exactly what was said if it was "I hate spending time with you when you just argue with me constantly" rather than just "I hate spending time with you" that makes a very big difference.

He's four. You need to figure out why you're being so triggered.

My 4yo is going through a very similar stage and whilst I don’t judge you for your reaction and I’m sure you feel terrible please try to remember that your child will encounter enough bullies in this world, don’t be the first one.

Don't be horrible. An outburst in frustration is understandable.

Play him at his own game. Tell him It's opposite day. Trust me this will make you see it for what it is and make you laugh...and have fun.

I think you’re being a bit too angsty. He won’t be scarred and your relationship won’t be irrevocably damaged because you shouted at him once. If he’s whinging on and being miserable then you’re right, kids won’t want to be his friend.

Sometimes kids need a sharp word to tell them their behaviour is wrong. They need to be taught that it’s not okay, and you’ve done that and now it’s fine. What’s the issue, really?

Were you being endlessly rude and demanding and whingy and your mother told you in a raised, sharp voice to pack it in? Nicely, I suspect if you’ve got NC there was more to it than that.

The odds are he will.
Kids remember the love, not the odd time their mum lost it with them when they pushed her to the limit.

He’s four. You can’t speak to him like that. If you feel the red mist descending because of his little emperor behaviour you put him in time out (for his sake and your own) until he grows out of it.

I find humour to be the best answer. And also "playing the fool" kids love that.
It diffuses the tension. And we are not talking about things you have to lay the law down about, like hitting etc. He is not t being intentionally difficult..... he is 4.

I know this stage - it can go on for years, although not as intensely. They do become little smart arses and it's really frustrating, however your reaction was beyond 'we all lose it once in a while'.

Losing it would be snapping something along the lines of 'for God's sake, will you stop arguing with everything I say?' or 'I'm getting sick of this behaviour'. The things you said are extremely damaging and downright nasty. Things might be back to normal, but this won't be forgotten completely.

I'd be more inclined to tell him he's being rude when you nit picks and counter it with a sharp 'excuse me'.

I think i would say please don't be rude, everytime he argues back, then carry on doing what your doing and no more discussion about it. If he screams I want ice cream. Just say, you can have some if you ask nicely. Get your DH to model this if needs be and you give the ice cream when anyone asks nicely. The answering back is relentless and draining. By having set phrases you feel like you have a coping mechanism and he knows the response he will get evetytime he is rude. If he responds positively, just say how interesting, good question etc to reinforce the positive stuff.

Just out of interest does he do this with your DH or just you?

If only the NHS had easy access to child psychologists. No, this is not normal behaviour. But I don't know what to suggest apart from seeing a paediatric behavioural psychologist. Maybe privately is an option?

He was quiet because he was shocked. Once he stops being shocked he will just behave exacrly as you do. Maybe you need to have stronger boundaries but if you've already got over how you spoke to your child you probably haven't been a complete pushover anyway.

If he is 4, is he starting school in September?

One thing we noticed with DD and her friends is those last few terms at nursery are unbearable (especially if they are amongst the eldest) as they are bored and frustrated.

Not sure I have a solution, but it did improve when they started school (with no exceptions). Hang on in there.

So many saintly parents on here! I’ll get flamed for saying this but I’m going to anyway;

OP, my 3 year old is exactly like this and very occasionally, from time to time, I have done just as you have and lost my shit with him. I have another child (18 months old), work full time in a stressful job and my husband works away for stretches of time and we have no, and I mean literally zero, support from family. It’s hard when you have a child of this nature. It’s developmentally normal but at the end of the day, you are a human being and who has their own thoughts, feelings and capacity to cope with things.

Gentle parenting techniques do not work with my son, plain and simple. He will push and push, ignore any kind of redirection etc. The only thing that works is time outs, removing him from the situation.

Every child is different and I can promise you, it’s very easy to say what other parents should and shouldn’t do when you don’t have a child who whinges, whines and wants to argue with you constantly. We are parents, people with our own emotions, feelings and capacities to cope, not bloody superhumans who are capable of constantly controlling their emotions when things get too much.

OP, I hear you, it’s tough 🫂