To be horrible to my four year old?

[appleandcat]

My four year old is a complete pain at the moment.He argues with everything I say and I mean everything. It’s literally being argumentative for the sake of it. It’s very draining and to be honest a bit depressing having everything you say disagreed with (I’ll say something like ‘I’m just nipping up the stairs!’ and he’ll say hourchily ‘you’re NOT going up the stairs.’)

So - I lost it a few days ago and I’m not proud of it but I screamed my head off at him, told him he was making me miserable and that I hated spending time with him, no one would want to be his friend. Horrible words and I did apologise for them but the thing is that it worked and he stopped arguing with me and whining at me.

Now we’re back to ‘normal.’ I have read the books and I’ve tried the techniques and all go ignored. And I’m actually wondering if I need to be a hell of a lot harsher and maybe that roaring out is what he needs. It’s certainly what my parents would have done: but I grew up with no confidence and I obviously don’t want that!

He is fine at nursery. So no idea what’s going on with him.

Repeating the way you were parented is an easy mistake to make but it will create the same damage.

Telling your son no one will want to be his friend will destroy his confidence. It is abusive and untrue.

Maybe look into parenting classes so you can better regulate your emotions.

Having an adult scream hurtful words at you is terrifying. He is now walking on eggshells and unless that was your aim, you need to change how you deal with very ordinary four year old insubordination.

I’m not sure how you’re so confident stating that you’re not a terrible person or parent when you’ve screamed at your 4 year old that you hate him and that he won’t have any friends?

He’s 4, you’re not, if you can’t control your own behaviour then you cannot hold him to higher standards than you hold yourself.

Go to a parenting class, reach out to the health visitor for some support, but do not continue to scream these awful things at him. Hitting kids used to be used to shut them up as well, and that “worked”, but all you’re doing is making him scared of you. An awful position to put a child in and will do you no favours later in life when you want him to be able to come to you with his problems and he won’t because he doesn’t trust you and you are not his safe place.

@appleandcat Yeah sure, just keep screaming and tearing down your 4 year old child because he gets on your nerves... I mean sure your confidence is ruined by it happening to you (in your own words) and apparently left you unable to control yourself, but yeah sure, just carry on the cycle, then he can do it to his kids. Great.

Why would you not stop it? What’s the reasoning in making OP’s life so difficult that she risks snapping again in a way she shouldn’t?

I'm going to go against the grain of PPs here. Both my DC have had limited response to gentle techniques, positive reinforcement (in fact this often has the complete opposite effect on my children), sticker charts and all the other techniques that I should be using.

The only thing that has ever been successful in changing behaviour in them has been when DH or I get to the end of our tether and lose our shit with them.

We don't do it all the time, and we don't attack personally. But every now and then we get too frustrated with the behaviour.

Verbal abuse works really well at getting them to stop. Maybe try physical abuse when that stops working. HTH.

There’s a middle way. It’s ok for children to see adults have big emotions too. It’s ok to see that saying mean things hurts people.

That doesn’t mean you belllow and shout. It does mean that he is allowed to see that he can hurt you and should think about how he behaves.

Don’t look out of control. Children need to think their parents can keep them safe. But it’s ok to say ‘stop, that’s making me really sad and hurting my feelings!’

Have you looked up oppositional defiant disorder? It could be just normal 4 year old behaviour but it may also need more of an intervention. Even if it's just a phase some of the ODD techniques would be helpful to try.

I think my exact words were something like (after about 30 non stop minutes of whining) ‘for gods sake, will you give it a rest, I’ve had this all day and as a result I haven’t enjoyed our day out and neither has anybody else and you won’t have anybody wanting to be your friend if this is how you behave.’

Normally I am patient, bright, positive, praise the good, gently correct or ignore the bad. A year on I have to conclude that doesn’t work and we’re still sullen and whingey and argumentative and while it probably wasn’t the best approach I’m still lost as to what is.

Increasingly I feel it’s just his personality which is also horrible but it’s difficult not to let those thoughts sneak in.

If you can shift your energy, you may well see a shift in him. At the moment you are expressing that you see him as someone who is a constant pain, and someone who you are concerned will grow up to be a difficult adult. There’s no way that you can know that at this stage, but by treating him in this way and telling him he’s so unlikeable that his own mum dislikes spending time with him and can’t see why he would have any friends, you are setting the scene for that to be more likely. If you are able to see him more positively and optimistically, he will probably become sunnier. Don’t we all, with people who express that they like us and value us? It may feel fake or exaggerated to start with, but hang in there. “I’m so glad to see you!” when he wakes up, or you collect him. “You’re my favourite person to spend time with”, if there’s any let up in the whining or negativity. “That’s really interesting, can you tell me why you said that”. Or if he says something negative, you can try exploring his feelings. “Often when people say something like that, it’s because they are feeling cross / sad / tired / hungry. What are you feeling at the moment? What would it look like if we drew it? What would it taste like, look like?”. He doesn’t owe you sunshine and flowers at his age. You owe him steadiness, patience and kindness. And if you give those to him, in my experience both your lives may become a lot happier.

Yeah … this is sort of what I am wondering. It’s the shock effect. But it is a bit of a worry for me, that I’m destined to a lifetime of whining and complaining and arguing. My brother was the same growing up and it did mean no one could enjoy themselves without his permission! For example we used to take it in turns to listen to a tape in the car old and if ‘my’ tape was one he didn’t like he’d whinge all the way through it so that you couldn’t enjoy it anyway!

It worries me a similar dynamic could be emerging here.

We're all human and have said or shouted things we regret @appleandcat so no judgement.

But I don't think the answer is to get harsher with him in future. Just ignore his annoying ways and hopefully he'll grow out of this stage. And obviously praise him when he's being nice and co-operative.

The thing is I’m honestly not @Wibbley97 . I’m normally so bright and positive and nice and kind … and it doesn’t work. I know I’m his safe space and all that. But it would be nice to be able to go upstairs in my own home without it having to be a Bluey episode esque drama.

He's four.

That's emotional abuse....He's 4 years old ffs! How will you handle his teenage years if this is how you act when he's 4?

You can put boundaries in place without emotionally abusing him.

For example each time he's rude he loses 5 minutes of screen time, and talk to him about why it's rude to talk to people like that. But don't scream at him, if he went quiet thats because it was a fear response....surely you don't want that?

My mum said shit like this to me when I was little and I still remember it now. It's taken a long time in therapy to work through and deal with, and has had a huge impact on my friendships and confidence.

I can see how you feel pushed to the edge, but you cannot say any of this to him. Maybe look at therapy for yourself if it's a trying time and you need help managing your emotions.

There's also a huge difference between being more stern and setting boundaries (which probably needs doing) and being verbally abusive to a 4 year old. I get it, parenting is relentless and it's tough when they're not listening. But abuse isn't the answer - and you really need to see it as completely unacceptable because if you excuse it away then you'll probably do it again.

I gave birth to him; I know how old he is to the day. I also know other four year olds have their moments and that’s the difference, it’s moments, it isn’t this constant arguing.

She has been controlling it for a long time, the whole point is that she's been controlling it and finally lost it.

4 year olds don’t have the emotional intelligence to understand that by being defiant they are annoying you because all they see is what they want. I think you need to pick your battles, just ignore the back chat and carry on with what you’re doing.

Don’t want to add to any sort of pile on, but telling him nobody wants to be his friend is really mean. You as his mother are his safe space, and coming from you that will really sting. You can tell them off without being hurtful.

Then maybe you might want to look into SEN issues if you think he's out of the norm.

It seems like you're almost planning to repeat your regrettable behaviour, and you really not to.

Yanbu op, sometimes people (including children) need to understand how their words and behaviour are affecting those around them, he has hopefully learnt that being purposely argumentative about every single little thing is actually a horrible thing to do and won't do it anymore. Yes it's not exactly ideal that you shouted at him but you're only human and you can only take so much.

This post is quite concerning. If you can't manage a 4 yo bring argumentative and turn to shouting and saying very nasty things I have no idea how you will cope with a teenager. Why are you so bothered by him disagreeing with you? When children are being argumentative you ignore and move on, not play up to it. Do you have mental health problems or some stress going on? You need to figure out what's led to this and get some support as what you have done is emotional abuse and rather than feel bad you are wondering if you need to be harsher. That's messed up.

I think the problem is that if people are saying not to do that it’s fair enough and I did feel awful afterwards and I apologised. But the thing is it leaves me with nothing. Because honestly, even though people won’t believe me, nothing else has worked or been effective. He just ignores what you’re saying and carries on whining and arguing. But if you ignore it he ramps it up to a point where you can’t.

It was a horrible thing to say but it also had some truth in it; I did find the day unenjoyable because of his behaviour.

Absolutely this. I have a four year old who can be very trying, but I can’t ever imagine saying anything so cruel to him 😢

“I did apologise, but…”

You still don’t see the seriousness of what you said, do you?

Disgusting behaviour veering on abusive towards a 4 year old. That was a personal attack, and he’s likely to remember it and be affected by it for a long time. I really can’t believe someone would say those things to their child.