To be horrible to my four year old?

[appleandcat]

My four year old is a complete pain at the moment.He argues with everything I say and I mean everything. It’s literally being argumentative for the sake of it. It’s very draining and to be honest a bit depressing having everything you say disagreed with (I’ll say something like ‘I’m just nipping up the stairs!’ and he’ll say hourchily ‘you’re NOT going up the stairs.’)

So - I lost it a few days ago and I’m not proud of it but I screamed my head off at him, told him he was making me miserable and that I hated spending time with him, no one would want to be his friend. Horrible words and I did apologise for them but the thing is that it worked and he stopped arguing with me and whining at me.

Now we’re back to ‘normal.’ I have read the books and I’ve tried the techniques and all go ignored. And I’m actually wondering if I need to be a hell of a lot harsher and maybe that roaring out is what he needs. It’s certainly what my parents would have done: but I grew up with no confidence and I obviously don’t want that!

He is fine at nursery. So no idea what’s going on with him.

’why she’s so triggered’ is because back talk to every single thing you say for a whole year is inherently frustrating!

My mother was (and still is) a wonderful mother, and while my overriding memories are of love, she has a sharp tongue and there is no denying that memories of those times (a tiny minority) are also there. Of course, I understand that no-one is perfect and this is just a human flaw, but those times have left an indelible mark and did some damage.

That's not true. I remember the times my mum lost it with me very vividly. Of course I remember the love as well, but probably my strongest memories are the negative ones.

Generally we recall our negative experiences more than we do positive ones - it's called negativity bias.

Sounds exactly like our DD! Shes 4.5 and apparently a dream at school blah blah. Non stop arguing at home! Doesnt really bother me buts drives DW round the twist. Every now and then DW loses it and seems to help for a day or two but no change in the long run. We try and stay cool!

I feel your pain. It is properly draining and totally ridiculous. Just hope this is a quick phase and not a long phase. Good luck!

Shouting will induce a fear response - flight, fight or freeze - but that doesn't mean it's an effective strategy.

Stay calm, be firm about expectations and use distraction - it works wonders! My youngest would often be grouchy on being collected from school - well beyond the age of 4. I took snacks but they often weren't enough to help them regulate, and they would start moaning about the walk home or whatever. I developed the habit of brightly asking questions about their day or commenting on what we were passing until something engaged their interest and they started chatting away. I occasionally used the same tactic until well into their teens!

It sounds like your mum made a habit of talking sharply, maybe even nastily to you, so yes, you will remember that as part of your childhood.
I mentioned I was horrible to my own young son once, I regret it to this day, he doesn't recall anything.
The OP sounds like she is not in the habit of talking like this to her son.
He is 4...I doubt, unless it's a common event, he won't remember anything about it when he is grown.

OP, it’s been said a lot on this thread in various different ways, but YOU need to be the regulated one.

I read somewhere that that’s the real privilege - having parents who are able to regulate their emotions. I absolutely didn’t have that growing up, my mother was a snap-and-screamer. I stopped showing her my emotions, and stopped trusting her altogether.

It wasn’t an ok way to talk to your child, in fact it was awful. But I think you know that.

Thanks. I had to step away from the thread for a bit because some answers were a bit upsetting. I’m clear in what I said and what would be the point of lying - but I did lose my temper, raise my voice and said that I hadn’t enjoyed the day because of his behaviour.

I just want to thank people - there have been some kind and useful answers on here. I do find with DS the ‘gentler’ techniques just don’t work, it’s weird as I don’t even think he’s particularly difficult as children go but it’s as if he gets into this argumentative mindset. The other day we went up a hill and I said what a big hill it was and he started telling me ‘it’s NOT big!’ Arrghhhhh

I am not a witch and I do a lot for and with him (as I should) and he has lots of praise and lots of love. I’m not perfect but I really do try to be, if that makes sense!

After I yelled at him we had a lot of cuddles and I apologised and said I shouldn’t have said it but I did add that the constant arguing had made me very upset and it just wasn’t very nice.

We live another day. I don’t think he’ll be scarred for life for a one off; repeatedly is different.

If it's a common occurrence, yes, you will remember it.
A one off... I really doubt it...unless you were a very over sensitive child, and in that case, I doubt you would have been the kind of child who drove their mum mad.

No, it was infrequent. Negativity bias is a Thing.

Not at all, but I remember the times when she 'lost it' and said unkind things like the OP. I was actually a very well behaved child and rarely got told off.

Stop trying to minimise what the OP has done by presuming to know more about what my experiences than I do!

You sound like a good mum, don't let the perfect specimens of motherhood on MN get you down.

It's the parents who don't regret the shouting, hitting, ignoring of their kids who need worry.

A one-off, instantly regretted occasion won't harm anyone, your son will probably grow into a delightfully agreeable 5 year old.😀

Just came on to say 4 year olds can be arseholes and sometimes we lose our shit, and you're not alone!
You apologised and you felt awful about it - you're a good parent. It worked because it scared them, probably - and sometimes that helps your sanity in the moment! So no judgement from me.

I can't offer much advice except for you'll find something that works. For me and my strong willed children, only giving one warning then delivering a consequence helps with some behavioural stuff, but for arguments I have stopped engaging - I just say I won't repeat myself , I've answered already so just don't respond anymore after that because little children are unreasonable so it does absolutely nothing except wind me up!

It's HAAAARD. shouting now and again isn't going to kill them so don't feel too bad. Won't reiterate what PPs have already said about doing it more to get him to behave. You won't feel good shouting all the time - you already feel awful about it so you know that's not good long term. It will pass. You'll figure it out. You got this x

He may remember it, he may not. I do remember times my parents laid into me and I probably deserved it but it doesn’t make it OK. I do agree that it was too personal and I tried to rectify it in my apology to him (which my own parents wouldn’t have done!) But they were human and loved me. The 80s tended towards a more scathing approach towards raising children.

I hope he also remembers the books we’ve read abs the activities and days out and walks and toys. I don’t believe one case of losing my shit in four years has doomed us forevermore.

I thought the same thing.

This thread me of a book I just read where a female character was abusing her child by screaming nasty things at him and throwing him across the bed. Her mates were all like “oh it’s ok, you’re just a stressed mama and society HATES mums. You’re doing a great job!” and then in the epilogue we’re all out celebrating the character being pregnant again. I assumed it was satire and then read the author’s acknowledgements where she said she wanted to shine a light on how amazing mums are considering everyone loathes them.

If a man did it, cut and dried, MN would castigate him. But as it’s a woman, it’s all “you’re not perfect, don’t even worry about it!”

It’s not normal. Of course parenting is hard but the pendulum has swung too far the wrong way.

No, I'm sure it hasn't.

Just don't write him off, even when your emotions are high :).

Have you considered whether there's SEN if you think his behaviour is outside of the norm for a child his age?
Or maybe if you're struggling, is it just about his behaviour, or is there other stuff going on for you that's making life harder and wearing you thin?

There's a huge chasm between gentle parenting and 'screaming your head off' - your words, OP, before you chose to try and minimise. You can be clear about your expectations without getting abusive and firm without being mean. Shut it down every time with a stern tone, but lising it is not an option.

After I yelled at him we had a lot of cuddles and I apologised and said I shouldn’t have said it but I did add that the constant arguing had made me very upset and it just wasn’t very nice.

So a bit like abusive husbands do?

‘ The other day we went up a hill and I said what a big hill it was and he started telling me ‘it’s NOT big!’ Arrghhhhh’

When you read this do you not see how pathetic you sound? Honestly, just say okay and move on. No need to psychoanalyse a four year olds observation of the size of a hill.

I obviously don't know more about your experiences than you do.

I do know the OP's experience sounds remarkably like my own, and that's what I am basing it on.

Her son is a handful, she lost it once, she instantly regretted it.
My son was a handful, I lost it once... he remembers nothing.
My bet is when her son is grown, neither will he.

Read your post again. Are you proud of how you come across? You don’t sound like a loving mother at all. Your little boy deserves to feel loved and cherished.

There’s a huge difference between what some posters have accused OP of, and what she actually said. People are bring their own historic trauma to this.

She didn’t say ‘ no wonder you don’t have any friends’ or ‘we hate spending time with you!’

She isn’t the mum who destroys her child by regularly telling him he ruined her life, ‘no wonder no one likes you, you snivelling little whiner!’

She’s said that people don’t like it when you behave like this, we haven’t enjoyed the day because of the things you did.

And that’s fair enough. Children don’t realise they are impacting everyone else until you explain to them. ‘Everyone wants to enjoy themselves today so we will need to take turns to choose where we go and do things that work for everyone.’

She didn’t say ‘ no wonder you don’t have any friends’ or ‘we hate spending time with you!’

She told him she hated spending time with him:

So - I lost it a few days ago and I’m not proud of it but I screamed my head off at him, told him he was making me miserable and that I hated spending time with him, no one would want to be his friend.

Something you said struck a chord with me- distraction etc doesn’t work. My son was exactly like this. Incredibly hard work and relentless. You couldn’t distract- persuade- correct. NOTHING worked. It really made me upset when I’d be given endless advice from others who seemed to have kids that were wired differently. Yes Glenda, I’ve tried consequences and following through. Anyway, turns out he wasn’t SEN and he doesn’t have a ‘bad’ personality. He’s incredibly bright and is the most delightful teen you could ever have. He was just sh£t at being a kid.
I remember being pushed to the absolute limit and I don’t think that people understand unless they experience it themselves. Just try and remove yourself from the situation and don’t make it personal

There is possibility he is looking for boundaries depending on how relaxed your parenting style is. Obviously there’s a way to be firm and correct him without saying things you don’t mean. Hopefully you can find a balance and he starts to regulate when there are more expectations as there are in nursery.

Look at it as he’s a class of children. All teachers ( primary anyway) are actors and we have weird and wonderful ways to get the kids to just be quiet.
Try these
Try holding up your hand ( like you used to raise your hand in class as a kid) Children somehow see that as a way to stop.
Clap your hands — “quiet now. Did you ask nicely for xyz?”
Stand with your finger on your lips, say nothing. Raised eyebrows help.

Honestly , I used to teach the children that threw the furniture and I can bring a class of them to silence with these. I always noticed that teachers that yelled took longer to bring the kids under control. Quietness works.