Can you define what Female Gender is?

[peakedandoverthehill]

I hear about biological sex and gender being different things but what is female gender? Surely if you can't define what having a female gender is, then how can it exist?

Voting

YABU - I can define female gender and will write my definition as a post here.
YANBU - You can't define female gender

I am listening to this new doco, and it looks to be, amongst other things, a collation of where we are now and how we got to this point.

Might be worth it just as a reminder but it has a high production quality.

Episode one of Uncomfortable Truths is here!

Uncomfortable Truths is presented by my non-profit, The Signal Education Project and Genspect, and is produced by Danube Institute.
This episode features Helen Joyce, Colin Wright, Buck Angel, Stella O'Malley, Lisa Marchiano, Sue Evans, Marcus Evans, Stephanie Davies-Arai, Sasha Ayad, Stephanie Winn, Colette Colfer, and Travis Brown (the film maker).

It’s more about a feeling. I don’t have to define myself as a woman, I just know I am. It’s the same for transgender people. It’s not about conforming to a certain look or stereotype, it’s about how they intrinsically feel about their identity.

That's where its a bit vague though. I know I'm a woman because my body is female sexed. But as I understand it, some people believe the sexed body is superceded by a non sexed 'gender' that makes one a woman. The question remains, how do people know if they have this gender or not? How can I tick a form to say my 'gender' is female if I don't understand what female gender is, but only what it's apparantly not (simply being of the female sex)?

But what makes this more relevant than any other philosophical belief that laws and policies prioritise it above sex if and when it is sex that matters ?

is there a link?Edit, ignore me, link didn't;t appear at first!

Remarkably there are very few TW in Afghanistan, or other countries where women’s social and legal standing is restricted or dangerous (as in parts of SA where rape is incredibly common). More in Iran, I understand, but being a gay man there is punishable by death and the regime will allow transition as an alternative. Funny, that, isn’t it?

Some people in this world (many people really) believe that there are intrinsic personality and behavioural difference between the sexes that are nothing to do with culture or socialisation. They believe they are there regardless – that women have x.y,z traits and men have a,b,c. They would have a very easy time defining what female gender is.

You might not agree with that ethos, but that doesn't mean you could prove them wrong.

To me, ‘gender’ is still something I associate with the foreign language nouns I had to learn.

When we’re talking humans, it’s biological sex.

They would have a hard time because there really is not one way to be a man or a women except to be male or to be female. Just because they believe some traits fall around a modal arrangement, doesn’t mean that outliers are more the opposite ‘gender’.

Just because some people believe in regressive stereotypes, even if it is cultural, doesn’t mean gender should be used as critieria to access female single sex spaces. Or that this philosophical belief should be relevant data to be collected instead of the sex a person materially is.

And don’t the outliers of their modelling disprove their understanding?

But what are they to do with, if not culture or socialisation?

The obvious other answer is biology.

We are biologically programmed to adopt certain behaviours, based on our male/female physiology and makeup. But this takes us back to sex, not gender.

So what else would these intrinsic personality or behavioural differences be a result of, if not culture, socialisation or biology?

And what are they? What are the differences that we can prove are distinct from culture, socialisation or biology?

Chickens and eggs.

And for the more esoterically minded, the Ourobouros....

And if a person then identifies as a gender in one culture, why then should they expect any other culture that uses the same word internationally ie, 'female' to respect their chosen identity label outside of their culture?

Using someone's cultural values and stereotypes to define an identity (a philosophical belief about oneself) that then takes precedence over sex when sex matters is flawed for many reasons.

It would depend upon his ideas of stereotypical norms for a female, this is why a lot of men who identify as female tend to dress a bit like hookers, sexy underwear, makeup, skirts high heels. That is (to them) the very obvious, physical differences between male and female. Obviously this is not the way a lot of actual women dress or distinguish themselves from men. And obviously not all men that identify as female dress this way.

that would be the opposite of cultural appropriation wouldn't it?

Words that are used as a basis of laws and policies, need to be definable if they are being used for safeguarding and for protection of a specific group.

If a term is being used that has 'subjective' meanings, it renders that law or policy much less meaningful or even meaningless. Gender identity is a philosophical belief and if people want to say that it is subjective, that is fine. It doesn't change the fact that gender identity should have never been prioritised above sex in instances where sex matters.

Female and male is not subjective. Woman, girl, man and boy should not be subjective if they are used in laws and policies meant to protect those people described in that way.

It really is that simple once you establish that gender is a belief in yourself and that not one other person has to believe in your identity and not one person should be pressured in anyway to act as if they believe in your identity.

Why does he need a gender ID to dress this way.

OP, you are falling prey to a famous logical fallacy (the Socratic fallacy).

This is how I feel.

We have safeguarding in place based on sex class. If anyone can opt into a sex class then there's no safeguarding.

It's not complicated. Why can't people just wear what they want but recognise their sex. And why do these gender identities have to be called a word that is already taken to mean something else.

It's a bit like me thinking that sugar tastes like salt because I have a taste impediment, so I decide to call sugar, salt and insist that others go along with me. It just doesn't work. How would labels and ingredients be packaged if nouns that are already taken now mean something else as well.

Why can't gender ID be names be things like introvert, or timid or in old fashioned term a personality.

He doesn’t. Many men wear women’s clothing and identify as men, they might do it for comfort or just because they like the clothes etc, like I wear men’s clothes for comfort or because some are just nicer. Men who do it for sexual gratification are transvestites. Neither of these types of men would identify as female. I know lots of men who wear women’s clothes and identify as men. I know one who identifies as female, he feels he is transgender (or born in the wrong body). I can’t tell you more than that about it as I’ve never had that conversation.

I really don't think what you said about "Men who do it for sexual gratification are transvestites. Neither of these types of men would identify as female." is true.

np.reddit.com/r/MtF/comments/1iukt4x/i_wish_i_was_told_about_gender_euphoria_boners/

There's no such thing as 'fe/male gender "

There's sex male /female
And there's gender. Man/woman

I’m not opening that post as it looks like a porn site but if you mean men who identify as women can be sexual and make or watch porn, I agree with you, just as anyone else can. I’m sure there’s porn for everything out there, I’d just rather not click on it.

In humans female gender means someone who was born a girl. It's not something that can be assigned or changed, you are either born with it and will always have it or are not born with it and will never have it.

It's not porn it's a reddit chat room. Where men are chatting about getting sexually turned on by wearing women's clothes and realising they are trans.
It was posted by another user on a different thread

Well technically they’re transvestites according to the WHO definition. They may be horny and confused however! I bet loads of transvestites think they’re trans now because of today’s situation.