Can you define what Female Gender is?

[peakedandoverthehill]

I hear about biological sex and gender being different things but what is female gender? Surely if you can't define what having a female gender is, then how can it exist?

Voting

YABU - I can define female gender and will write my definition as a post here.
YANBU - You can't define female gender

They have transitioned or are transitioning.

Like I said, probably confused. But if they want to cut their bits off that’s fine by me!

But you said that transvestites don't identify as women when they do.

They aren't cutting their bits off either, around 90% of males who identify as women do not have any surgery.

You seem a little bit misinformed tbh.

Transvestites by definition don’t identify as women. They may start out as transvestites and become trans, they may be transvestites in denial and think they’re trans. They may not have been transvestites at all but thought they were. But the definition of transvestism is a particular definition and they don’t identify as female. If they do, they are by definition NOT transvestite. There will be overlap no doubt as with all psychiatric disorders.

A transvestite would have the protected chararacteristic of gender reassignment under the Equality Act. So the law wouldn't treat a transvestite differently to any other trans person without a GRC

I know them as men with autogynephilia (you called them transvestites) and many do identify as trans.

Before the world went mad, "gender" and "sex" were synonyms.

Gender was often used as a euphemism for "sex" because some people thought "sex" sounded bit rude. It was used on application forms and in polite conversation to avoid the blushes of delicate souls.

The trans movement has taken the word and attempted to give it a new (and frankly ridiculous) meaning.

So, to answer your question, in relation to human beings, "female gender" has exactly the same meaning as "female sex": A person who has XX chromosomes.

And before that, gender was quite rightly a separate concept to describe the societal pressure/the discourse formed by those in power (men/males/the patriarchy) upon people to conform to expectations of behaviour and assumptions of capability, intelligence and psychological makeup based erroneously upon the sex of the people concerned.

They are two entirely separate concepts - it's the making them the 'same thing, really/it's not polite to say the word sex' that has created this woolly area that has caused the issues currently faced.

I'm not saying that should, I'm simply saying that they do. That's a belief system, which many things (and laws sadly) that our society is built around and/or includes.

They would likely argue that biology is not just sex organs.

Well sure, it's skeletal development, muscle mass and distribution, endocrine systems, fat distribution, disposition to particular diseases, immune response, aging profile, etc, etc.

Which is all still sex not 'gender' 🫠

I have been wondering this for a while. What is it that makes me female or should I say what is it that makes me feel female? I am female sex (not trans). Being female is not having long hair and wearing dresses, being female is not having breasts and a womb as I would still be female with those removed, I would still be female if I was not a mother, I would still be female if I was attracted to women or attracted to no one. Do I feel female because I was raised and socialised as a female or is it something innate? I can’t explain what it is that makes me female, I just feel that I am.

Brain chemistry and physiology is the more likely culprit.

There's zero evidence that there a 'female' or 'male' brain.

and what exactly do you mean by physiology?

I didn't say there is evidence there is a female or male brain, I'm saying that plenty of people across the globe believe there are female and male brains, and that is how the concept of gender as aside from sex has entered vocabulary and belief systems. Heck, they also believe in female and male energy and spirit.

If you're asking for everyone in the country, if not the world, to believe in evidence-based information only, then you're fighting a losing game. Religion, spirituality, intuition, quackery pseudo-science, reincarnation, healing crystals ... the concept of 'belief' (and what some would call conformation bias) forms a huge proportion of how people make their way through life and what they believe to be 'real', Arguing on Mumsnet is not going to change that.

Over 40% of Americans believe in Creationism, and 40% of Brits and Americans believe in ghosts for Christ's sake. That is the world you are operating in.

We'll never know for sure, much as we can't prove the existence of gods, but I suspect if you were in a male body you'd "just feel" that you were male.

Like I "just feel" human and not a cat.

It doesn't matter that some people do believe in sexed brains or astrology or heaven and hell, it just matters that laws aren't made based on those beliefs that don't discriminate against those who don't hold them.

Go to church. Don't force me to attend.

Check your horoscope. Don't make me base my day around what it says.

Believe you're a woman trapped in a man's body. Don't make me pretend I don't notice you in the female changing room.

Yes. No one can convince someone with evidence based reasoning who is determined to believe pseudoscience. You are correct there.

However, if people can speak with accuracy and precision, without the emotionally manipulative language being demanded, then there is a chance. And a great deal gets achieved on Mumsnet. From 'arguing'.

There is a very good reason that there are some posters who used to be determined to try different tactics to shut down discussion. There are still some remaining posters who do this, but they are probably not the activists that were here on MN even up to just a couple of months ago. Even two years ago, Mumsnet was a target for extreme transgender activists who used reporting, distraction and resorted to abuse on boards to stop discussion. All because of 'arguing'.

Now, a great deal of information is disseminated, sometimes as it is happening, sometimes great discussion analysing evidence within hours of it being released can happen.

It's positive to believe in there being a chance – with anything – perhaps I'm more cynical. I don't think the world en masse can come around to this way of processing information.

And yet, the polling shows each two years that the general population is becoming more and more aware and rejecting male inclusion in female single sex provisions.

And looking at the recent threads in AIBU, so many posters now post evidence based and informed posts compared to even August last year when there were so many discussions arising from two male boxers competing.

I now see many posters using the points discussed on AIBU threads just months ago when there was so much less informed posting and more emotionally laden pleas and many more shaming posts labelling posters as transphobic and hateful.

So, I think there are already signs of people becoming more and more informed. It takes time and it takes a fuck ton of effort to collate the information and present it. But it is being done here on MN and other parts of the internet.

All movement. As I say, I just don’t believe it will become evident en masse and/or lasting.

Good thing then that there are those who believe that change is happening and is one way (ie. that once people know enough they rarely go back to fully supporting gender identity). We will keep campaigning and raising awareness.

Without any evidence, which I now doubt will be forthcoming, why would this not be a lasting change. I really think this is one way trip in understanding for most. And this genie will not go back into the bottle.

Of course he can't. He hasn't been socialized from babyhood as a female, so he has male biology and male socialization.

But you aren't confused. You're disingenuous and deceptive.

Female = sex
Feminine = gender

I do think hormones as well as socialisation affect how people feel. I was reading an article by a woman who needed to take testosterone and how it affected her, she thought about sex non stop and became competitive.

We can never know how another person experiences a sense of who they are.

But however they feel inside, however they present outside, sex is cannot be changed.

These male people think they can describe what a female is.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-14433829/being-man-hard-woman-inside-transmaxxing-trend-men-swap-gender-female-benefits.html

https://archive.is/xUDPq

“The 'Transmaxxing Manifesto', which was written by the movement's anonymous Swedish leader Vintologi, outlines how one of the biggest advantages of becoming a woman is the 'superiority of female aesthetics' and how this can be used to 'extract resources from males'.

there are quite a few different male perspectives in the article. Including this one:

“Sharing before-and-after photos of their transition, they claimed: 'Now the very same alpha males that bullied me bend on their knees just to have a chance of kissing my feet, my [direct messages] are full of thirsty men begging for my attention, and I'm having more sex than any alpha male ever.'”