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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Aibu to drop racist student

260 replies

HeadacheEarthquake · 21/02/2025 00:36

Aibu to run a mile
Yes YABU teach her to behave
YaNBU - run away and find new clients

I am currently teaching a pensioner to the tune of £320 a month to play piano and violin

She has often referred to German composers as "Krauts" and French composers as "Frogs". She does not know I am part French.

I assumed this might be generational and have gently discouraged it but this weeknsje used the terms "gayboys" when referring to some local salon owners after a breezy conversation about nail polish then went on to remark thay the ABRSM books always seem to "have to have a coloured on the front"

I said "does that matter" and she was visibly shaken and messed up her piece terribly.

I want to end the lessons with her but would like to know whether anyone would consider paying something and appealing to her better nature and having a conversation about appropriate manner in lessons rather than just writing them off.

Yours,

A multinational teacher in turmoil.

OP posts:
HeadacheEarthquake · 21/02/2025 09:09

TeaAndStrumpets · 21/02/2025 09:04

TBH the music teachers I've known are barely surviving financially so I have taken this thread with a huge pinch of salt.

She has two lessons a week, each 60 mins. She wants this frequency and can more than afford it.

Most of my students have an hour a week. The rate here is £40ph.

I am lucky to have a busy schedule and make a very good living from what I do.

OP posts:
Lettuceandbroccolisoup · 21/02/2025 09:12

"The poster saying seek legal advice?!"

I'm glad you see it as a joke.

You asked for advice, and I've given it. You do what you like with it. Just don't come back here in 6 months saying that you're in the middle of a discrimination case.

Nowadays people get into trouble for "discrimination" at the drop of a hat. We have people in prison for "hurty words" on social media.
I don't think this pupil will initiate any legal action, but she might have a son/daughter who won't be enamoured with you refusing lessons on the grounds that she's "racist"

Remember the Christian bakers and the gay wedding cake debacle ??

5128gap · 21/02/2025 09:12

Lettuceandbroccolisoup · 21/02/2025 09:03

We don't know anything about this pupil's life before she became a pupil.

In South Africa there are a group of people known as "Cape Coloureds". These are multiracial people of mixed heritage. Their ancestry comes from the interracial mixing between the Whites (descendants of the Boers) Bantu and even people from the Yemen. Eventually, all these ethnic and racial groups intermixed with each other, forming a group of mixed-race people that became the "Cape Coloureds". or "Coloureds" for short. They are very proud of their heritage incidentally.
This name distinguishes them from those of Negro heritage who have much darker skins, who were sometimes called Kaffirs (derogatory)

If this lady has lived in South Africa, which I suspect, she maybe doesn't know what she says isn't PC here..

You're missing the point. Even if we reach deep for an excuse as to why a woman living in the UK may somehow have escaped the fact that 'coloured' is not an appropriate term, that doesn't explain why she felt the need to comment on a black person being on the front of the book in the first place. I'm guessing she wasn't saying "isn't it great that the book reflects the diversity of our society", but rather either blatantly complaining, because she doesn't want to see people of colour represented, or that sly hinting people do to open up a racist rant with the like minded.

HeadacheEarthquake · 21/02/2025 09:15

Lettuceandbroccolisoup · 21/02/2025 09:12

"The poster saying seek legal advice?!"

I'm glad you see it as a joke.

You asked for advice, and I've given it. You do what you like with it. Just don't come back here in 6 months saying that you're in the middle of a discrimination case.

Nowadays people get into trouble for "discrimination" at the drop of a hat. We have people in prison for "hurty words" on social media.
I don't think this pupil will initiate any legal action, but she might have a son/daughter who won't be enamoured with you refusing lessons on the grounds that she's "racist"

Remember the Christian bakers and the gay wedding cake debacle ??

Edited

Unfortunately they would have a very hard time proving why I'd stopped showing up - I'm not a cake shop

I can cease lessons for no reason at any time, she doesn't have any rights to my time

OP posts:
queenMab99 · 21/02/2025 09:19

I would say something, you won't make a difference otherwise. If it carries on once you have made your view plain, then drop the lessons and explain why. She may not be closed minded, as she is taking lessons to either learn or improve her piano and violin playing, so she has the capacity to change.

CurlewKate · 21/02/2025 09:21

The lengths Mumsnetters will go to defend racists never fails to amaze me.

5128gap · 21/02/2025 09:22

Lettuceandbroccolisoup · 21/02/2025 09:12

"The poster saying seek legal advice?!"

I'm glad you see it as a joke.

You asked for advice, and I've given it. You do what you like with it. Just don't come back here in 6 months saying that you're in the middle of a discrimination case.

Nowadays people get into trouble for "discrimination" at the drop of a hat. We have people in prison for "hurty words" on social media.
I don't think this pupil will initiate any legal action, but she might have a son/daughter who won't be enamoured with you refusing lessons on the grounds that she's "racist"

Remember the Christian bakers and the gay wedding cake debacle ??

Edited

No one has the slightest grounds for any legal action against the OP. It is not a crime to tell someone they find their ways of refering to and comments about other people offensive, and no longer wish to teach them because of it.

Lettuceandbroccolisoup · 21/02/2025 09:23

@5128gap "or that sly hinting people do to open up a racist rant with the like minded."

So now you're a mind reader?

I'm not sure what sort of people you're mixing with but they don't sound very nice.

Mirabai · 21/02/2025 09:23

wastingtimeonhere · 21/02/2025 05:43

FFS..its not 'generational' , 'generational' comments haven't been in use for 100 yrs or more..60 plus grew up with anti-rascism/ anti apartheid movements, gay rights and feminist campaigns. An old-fashioned bigot can be any age.
I've heard far more racist terms from under 45s than older.

This is a fantasy world. There’s racism everywhere, you can’t get away from it, there’s plenty enough on MN.

But certainly this kind of talk for someone in their 70+ isn’t that extraordinary. She’s obviously quite ignorant and unsophisticated.

When I went round looking at care homes for my aunt who comes from the white side of my family, I was told by several care managers that the staff are trained to deal with racial infelicities.

Lettuceandbroccolisoup · 21/02/2025 09:24

5128gap · 21/02/2025 09:22

No one has the slightest grounds for any legal action against the OP. It is not a crime to tell someone they find their ways of refering to and comments about other people offensive, and no longer wish to teach them because of it.

Are you a solicitor?

No thought not 🙄

SomePig · 21/02/2025 09:27

I love the new ABRSM covers btw - really sweet pictures of a wide range of kids obviously enjoying playing their instruments. With that comment I’d probably have gone for a deliberate misunderstanding: “Oh I know, Marjorie, aren’t they brilliant covers? Giving people from all backgrounds the chance to see themselves represented as musicians! Good on the ABRSM for being so inclusive” (and then segued into a discussion of how the lists themselves are now much better gender-balanced, incorporate music from beyond Europe etc, which is not as obvious as the book covers but still a really significant and important change they’ve made over the years).

FindusMakesPancakes · 21/02/2025 09:31

HeadacheEarthquake · 21/02/2025 01:08

Not intentionally a drip feed but side info, a student a teach (to the tune of only £40pm) her mother is regularly on the local pages supporting Britain first and bemoaning refugees.

I agree there needs to be change and we have issues but the rhetoric against refugees she spouts makes me question whether I want her money.

My reason for ignoring it is it's not her teenage daughters fault

I would be far more inclined to drop this one. No, it isn't the daughter's fault, but it is her mother's money and I wouldn't knowingly want to take it.

HeadacheEarthquake · 21/02/2025 09:34

SomePig · 21/02/2025 09:27

I love the new ABRSM covers btw - really sweet pictures of a wide range of kids obviously enjoying playing their instruments. With that comment I’d probably have gone for a deliberate misunderstanding: “Oh I know, Marjorie, aren’t they brilliant covers? Giving people from all backgrounds the chance to see themselves represented as musicians! Good on the ABRSM for being so inclusive” (and then segued into a discussion of how the lists themselves are now much better gender-balanced, incorporate music from beyond Europe etc, which is not as obvious as the book covers but still a really significant and important change they’ve made over the years).

I think that's what I will go with - she is due a new book, so I imagine the comment will come again.

It took me back to a heated row with my own mother, who I no longer talk to where she complained that tv shows now have to have black people on to be woke. One British show was ALL black people, and that's taking it too far in her opinion.

To the PP that said about living in a bubble, can you direct me to said bubble? It sounds nice for a break from the vitriol that seems the unapologetic norm from many angles

Oh and PP that said "we all laughed at Little Britain" ... no, not all of us laughed at it, some of us found it disgusting at the time!

OP posts:
HeadacheEarthquake · 21/02/2025 09:35

SomePig · 21/02/2025 09:27

I love the new ABRSM covers btw - really sweet pictures of a wide range of kids obviously enjoying playing their instruments. With that comment I’d probably have gone for a deliberate misunderstanding: “Oh I know, Marjorie, aren’t they brilliant covers? Giving people from all backgrounds the chance to see themselves represented as musicians! Good on the ABRSM for being so inclusive” (and then segued into a discussion of how the lists themselves are now much better gender-balanced, incorporate music from beyond Europe etc, which is not as obvious as the book covers but still a really significant and important change they’ve made over the years).

I am loving the new range of the rep, as are my students! So refreshing

OP posts:
AnnaAkhmatova · 21/02/2025 09:35

As someone who's done adult ed and is also from a group that experiences racial discrimination, this would be my advice.

Keep it professional

If she pays the invoices, practises and is making progress then the teacher-student working relationship is progressing.

You don't like her attitudes or her language choices and that's absolutely your prerogative. But I'd suggest you simply don't engage, and keep turning the subject back to the music eg.

Them; I don't like this cover because etc etc..
You: I think the first piece gives you a really good opportunity to practice pizzicato.

If she keeps bringing her wish to talk about social/racial issues into tuition, point out that she's paying you £40 an hour to learn music, and you don't feel it's right to bring other issues into that time

Lettuceandbroccolisoup · 21/02/2025 09:46

CurlewKate · 21/02/2025 09:21

The lengths Mumsnetters will go to defend racists never fails to amaze me.

I would dispute that the pupil is "racist".

The fact that she uses the words "coloureds" tells me she's originally from South Africa and has probably come back to retire here.

I think OP hasn't given the full info here.

If she was racist she's have said "darkies", "blacks" or "n***s."

Hwi · 21/02/2025 09:47

Forget about this old lady. Or drop her. No, better still, report her for hate speech. And in the meantime there are more pressing things to do - petition to ban some books - start with The WInd in the Willows, because when Toad of Toad Hall took a temporary leave of his senses, either Mole or Ratty tried to explain it by saying 'But his mother was a frog'. We need to ban this book urgently. I know it is not directly connected with your remit, but since you raised this issue....

Porcuporpoise · 21/02/2025 09:48

Lettuceandbroccolisoup · 21/02/2025 09:24

Are you a solicitor?

No thought not 🙄

She's right though. You are legally allowed to withdraw a service provided you're not discriminating on the basis of a protected characteristic (being racist is not a protected characteristic).

Magnastorm · 21/02/2025 09:49

If she makes you uncomfortable and you can fill the place then absolutely drop her. Life is too short to put up with such shit.

Magnastorm · 21/02/2025 09:49

Lettuceandbroccolisoup · 21/02/2025 09:24

Are you a solicitor?

No thought not 🙄

It's pretty obvious you aren't.

Mixedmix · 21/02/2025 09:49

HeadacheEarthquake · 21/02/2025 09:05

Post edited by MNHQ (P word)

Just catching up, some really helpful views on what I could say

Some of the responses are unhinged,

I'm not going to write a list of rules for adults to stick to, including "no going off topic" 🤣 no chatting!

The poster trying to give me a history lesson as if its brand new information where these terms come from historically and that makes them somehow not derogatory?! Of course I know the history but it's not relevant- you could argue that about all derogatory terms. Slippery slope.

The poster saying seek legal advice?!

And the posters clutching their pearls because I state the students age demographic, language used, amount of money it's worth to me personally, these are all things people would then pull me up on not sharing because they're relevant details.

Commenting on the race of the child on the ABRSM books was clearly my limit as I reacted quickly without thinking about it for a second - that's a level up from calling people Frogs.

I'm not virtue signalling. I was genuinely asking for advice on an otherwise respectful person who has two lessons a week which is financially obviously more valuable than someone who has one a fortnight- I think most people would have hopes of salvaging that

If she was out and out bigoted from the moment the lesson began I would drop her regardless of how much money she was paying! Maybe she is, and has thus far been masking it well. Maybe she isn't and is open to hearing my view.

Do I find frog offensive? Yes I think so. I'm not German and find Kraut offensive. If someone called my husband a Taff I would be upset. I grew up hearing the word "p**i" used by my dad a lot about our neighbors and it used to make me angry.

It reduces people to their place of origin in a belittling and demeaning way I think. Even when meant affectionately or in jest - I think it forces a label on someone and reduces them. A bit like when a man calls a woman something infantilising.

Calling French people 'frog' is rude, but not racist. It's nowhere near the same level as calling a Black person the N word or an East Asian person the C word (those words are racist). Is she saying nasty things about French and Germans?

HeadacheEarthquake · 21/02/2025 09:51

Hwi · 21/02/2025 09:47

Forget about this old lady. Or drop her. No, better still, report her for hate speech. And in the meantime there are more pressing things to do - petition to ban some books - start with The WInd in the Willows, because when Toad of Toad Hall took a temporary leave of his senses, either Mole or Ratty tried to explain it by saying 'But his mother was a frog'. We need to ban this book urgently. I know it is not directly connected with your remit, but since you raised this issue....

What a silly comment.

OP posts:
Lettuceandbroccolisoup · 21/02/2025 09:52

Hwi · 21/02/2025 09:47

Forget about this old lady. Or drop her. No, better still, report her for hate speech. And in the meantime there are more pressing things to do - petition to ban some books - start with The WInd in the Willows, because when Toad of Toad Hall took a temporary leave of his senses, either Mole or Ratty tried to explain it by saying 'But his mother was a frog'. We need to ban this book urgently. I know it is not directly connected with your remit, but since you raised this issue....

Toadie and his pals might like to join some more books that have been banned

https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/info/50138/leisure_and_learning/1435/censored_-_the_books_they_didnt_want_us_to_read

Lettuceandbroccolisoup · 21/02/2025 09:54

HeadacheEarthquake · 21/02/2025 09:51

What a silly comment.

It's satire - I like it !

Bababear987 · 21/02/2025 09:54

HeadacheEarthquake · 21/02/2025 00:56

No she if anything has been quite complimentary of the work on her hair from who she called "gayboys" and is always intrigued when I teach her things about other cultures. This is why im confused.

I dropped another student a few years ago after they made rude and negative comments about Italians (not that it should even matter but I spend a lot of my time with this community. If I didn't I'd still be upset)
So it's odd as she seems very liberal, just her language is so wildly off and non PC

Could this not be an issue just with her language and incorrect terms, rather than her being racist? Terminology has changed so much that it's easy for people to cause offense where none was meant. My gran would say 'coloured' because that was the term she knew and to say black wouldve been rude to her. I think the intent is a big thing here, I'd find it hard listening to her say stuff but I'd probably laugh if off as her being a daft old woman tbh or just gently mention it's not the correct term, it sounds like she just doesnt know.