Aibu to drop racist student

[HeadacheEarthquake]

Aibu to run a mile
Yes YABU teach her to behave
YaNBU - run away and find new clients

I am currently teaching a pensioner to the tune of £320 a month to play piano and violin

She has often referred to German composers as "Krauts" and French composers as "Frogs". She does not know I am part French.

I assumed this might be generational and have gently discouraged it but this weeknsje used the terms "gayboys" when referring to some local salon owners after a breezy conversation about nail polish then went on to remark thay the ABRSM books always seem to "have to have a coloured on the front"

I said "does that matter" and she was visibly shaken and messed up her piece terribly.

I want to end the lessons with her but would like to know whether anyone would consider paying something and appealing to her better nature and having a conversation about appropriate manner in lessons rather than just writing them off.

Yours,

A multinational teacher in turmoil.

All of this. My mum is 86. She would use all these terms. We just say ' You can't say that anymore mum. You need to say XYZ' . We'll all be old one day ( I hope) and the young people will be saying just the same to us.

I am 70 and have never used that kind of language in my life neither did my parents born in 1925. People should stop using age as an excuse. Yes, racism was rife in the 70s but it wasn't the dark ages. Not every one was racist and those that found this language acceptable then have had time to move on.

I'd give her one last chance and it she continues drop her. There is no excuse particularly if you are teaching her in your own home.

Maybe think about what your price would be to put up with it. £500 per month? £750? £1000?

Tell her your prices are unfortunately having to go up and this is the new rate. Win either way

"Kraut" and "Frog" are certainly slurs against German and French people, but how are they racist? French and German aren't races.

I'd call her out on using these terms, OP, but that's all I'd do.

Challenge her? Say, Margeret, you can't say that about gay people these days! You'll upset someone!
Keep it light, see if she changes.

I remember saying coloured describing someone once, and I was pulled up about it. Never said it again

Honestly I wouldn't drop her. I'd continue to take her money (and put the price up a bit) and every single time she says something out of order I'd challenge it. Leaving her in her bigoted silo is never going to change anything. The only way people change is via education and challenge.

Early signs of dementia? It's just you mentioned she looked embarrassed.

It's a generational thing and you have already said she is only using non pc language. Gosh some of the sanctimonius responses on here, exactly what is wrong with society now! Throw an elderly person under the bus for being elderly effectively!

Personally I would drop her. Her bigotry isn't targeted at just one group. Sorry but it isn't generational now. Those generations have passed unless you are telling me she is about to turn 100. Anyone using such slurs now are doing so knowingly. If these phrases are in their every day parlance it says plenty about them and those they usually associate with.

And yes of course businesses can choose who they do business with in the same way we can ask our pensions advisers not to invest in certain types of businesses, in the same way we can choose to buy ethical products etc. In the same way some professionals won't act for tobacco companies. As employees your employer makes those choices. You can then decide whether to work for that employer.

However as a self employer person or business owner we can choose not to do business with bigots when we are fully aware that is what they are.

No adult however old, can possibly have escaped the knowledge that these type of comments are offensive. Besides which, she has the ability to reason so should be able to work out for herself these comments are wrong, if she had decency. She isn't simply making racist remarks because she knows no better, she is making them because she is racist. Up to you if you want to teach her knowing that.

As others have said, I'd be inclinced to have a conversation with her - she may not realise the terms she's using are offensive. My husband's grandmother came out with a couple of SHOCKERS in the early 2000s - the most memorable was her describing the colour of something as 'n* brown'. We very gently explained to her why such phrases weren't acceptable and she was genuinely horrified that she might have caused offence - she truly didn't know any better because nobody had ever picked her up on it before!

Exactly, and why the need to state this student pays OP £320 per month for music lessons? It just comes across as virtue signalling.

Unless she is pushing 100 it isn't a generational thing. Anyone in their 80s and under knows exactly that these are slurs.

That was 25 years ago. Fortunately times have changed. Anyone under 90 knows these are slurs. So unless she is over 90 then she knows!

I wish my dad had about my gay nephew. Luckily my nephew is the most confident, proud young man who gives no shits at all

He hasn’t been exactly complimentary about my single mother daughter either, even though my grandson, his great grandson, is the most incredible child that ever lived

Interesting that all the people defending the 'innocent old lady, who doesn't KNOW!!!' are choosing to focus on her uses of outdated terms for other Europeans rather than on her 'observation' about people of colour being on the front of a book. Anyone defending her care to explain what that's about if it's not based in racism? Why does she think that a black person on a book cover is worth commenting about? Just a person surely?

No it's not! Not all of us older people use those words. Don't make excuses for her.

IMHO it’s always better to challenge racism, xenophobia, homophobia, sexism or anything else.

You can do it very politely and without confrontation. I tend to find asking people why is the best way. Sounds less attacking. And they have to hold themselves to account. “Why do you use those terms?”, “Do you realise it’s offensive?”, “Why do you think that?”.

If people go unchallenged, we’re part of the problem. That’s why I don’t like cancel culture. It makes people bitter and hardened in their prejudiced views. Better to challenge it. Used to have to do it all the time back in the day, when it was more overt, e.g. in football crowds.

IMHO silence is violence.

100%. Some people were excusing what Greg Wallace was alleged to have done due to his age. When he was a teenager, it wasn’t OK to sexually harass women. People got called out on it decades ago.

^ This

I'd do this

We don't know anything about this pupil's life before she became a pupil.

In South Africa there are a group of people known as "Cape Coloureds". These are multiracial people of mixed heritage. Their ancestry comes from the interracial mixing between the Whites (descendants of the Boers) Bantu and even people from the Yemen. Eventually, all these ethnic and racial groups intermixed with each other, forming a group of mixed-race people that became the "Cape Coloureds". or "Coloureds" for short. They are very proud of their heritage incidentally.
This name distinguishes them from those of Negro heritage who have much darker skins, who were sometimes called Kaffirs (derogatory)

If this lady has lived in South Africa, which I suspect, she maybe doesn't know what she says isn't PC here..

TBH the music teachers I've known are barely surviving financially so I have taken this thread with a huge pinch of salt.

Post edited by MNHQ (P word)

Just catching up, some really helpful views on what I could say

Some of the responses are unhinged,

I'm not going to write a list of rules for adults to stick to, including "no going off topic" 🤣 no chatting!

The poster trying to give me a history lesson as if its brand new information where these terms come from historically and that makes them somehow not derogatory?! Of course I know the history but it's not relevant- you could argue that about all derogatory terms. Slippery slope.

The poster saying seek legal advice?!

And the posters clutching their pearls because I state the students age demographic, language used, amount of money it's worth to me personally, these are all things people would then pull me up on not sharing because they're relevant details.

Commenting on the race of the child on the ABRSM books was clearly my limit as I reacted quickly without thinking about it for a second - that's a level up from calling people Frogs.

I'm not virtue signalling. I was genuinely asking for advice on an otherwise respectful person who has two lessons a week which is financially obviously more valuable than someone who has one a fortnight- I think most people would have hopes of salvaging that

If she was out and out bigoted from the moment the lesson began I would drop her regardless of how much money she was paying! Maybe she is, and has thus far been masking it well. Maybe she isn't and is open to hearing my view.

Do I find frog offensive? Yes I think so. I'm not German and find Kraut offensive. If someone called my husband a Taff I would be upset. I grew up hearing the word "p**i" used by my dad a lot about our neighbors and it used to make me angry.

It reduces people to their place of origin in a belittling and demeaning way I think. Even when meant affectionately or in jest - I think it forces a label on someone and reduces them. A bit like when a man calls a woman something infantilising.

Off topic but I just came on to applaud you for getting a thorn character into the word þhink 👏

(though maybe there’s a simple explanation such as you are on an Icelandic keyboard)

OP, I’ve been in similar situations as a teacher and also pulled up on offensive terminology that I didn’t realise was actually offensive. I was so grateful to the people who (gently) told me so I could avoid causing further harm. Maybe you could put it to her in those terms (eg “I know you’d never want anyone to feel bad, Marjorie, so I wanted to let you know those terms are now considered slurs”).