Aibu to drop racist student

[HeadacheEarthquake]

Aibu to run a mile
Yes YABU teach her to behave
YaNBU - run away and find new clients

I am currently teaching a pensioner to the tune of £320 a month to play piano and violin

She has often referred to German composers as "Krauts" and French composers as "Frogs". She does not know I am part French.

I assumed this might be generational and have gently discouraged it but this weeknsje used the terms "gayboys" when referring to some local salon owners after a breezy conversation about nail polish then went on to remark thay the ABRSM books always seem to "have to have a coloured on the front"

I said "does that matter" and she was visibly shaken and messed up her piece terribly.

I want to end the lessons with her but would like to know whether anyone would consider paying something and appealing to her better nature and having a conversation about appropriate manner in lessons rather than just writing them off.

Yours,

A multinational teacher in turmoil.

I think you have three perfectly reasonable options and you should do whichever works best for your comfort and finances:

1. Drop her as a student
2. Make it clear calmly but clearly that certain language isn't ok with you
3. Ignore it

You're not under any obligation to teach her or ignore it. If avoiding the unpleasantness is worth more to you than the lesson fees she's paying then there's absolutely nothing wrong with declining to schedule further lessons (with or without an explanation)

She got her arse handed to her, it was brutal!

Absolutely

From responses I think option two then one.

All the posters shaming me for asking for opinions are missing the point of an open discussion forum intended for advice and support I think!

And the "oh she doesn't mean anything negative" excuses here are absurd. No mature adult in 2024 actually thinks that calling people frogs or krauts is a compliment, they just don't see a problem with calling them something negative and assume you either won't see a problem either or won't want to rock the boat and say something. It's disengenous to pretend that those haven't consistently been terms used to dehumanize and express disgust for French and German people during times of conflict, and a pensioner will know that even better than a teen or young adult. This isn't even like using coloured vs black (or debates on queer/fag/gay/dyke) where the language that's considered respectful or offensive has undergone dramatic shifts and disagreements in recent decades.

Of course it's not generational. My mother would be over 100 if she were still alive and she would never have spoken like that. I have a close friend who's 90 and she wouldn't speak like that either.

They must see it all!

This being the case, no, I wouldn't drop her. It sounds like she is speaking in what is just a very natural way for her given her upset when you challenged her observation.

Language is a funny thing, but right now there is, at least among middle class progressive people, this idea that using the right language is deeply indicative of attitudes like racism.

I can assure you that is not the case. People, similarly to this lady, can use the wrong (ie, not acceptable to middle class sensibilities) language and have no ill will towards those individuals. And there will be people who use all the right words and seem to have all the right opinions, and yet are in fact deeply bigoted.

Even the comment about the people on the front of the book - is she wrong to notice that? I would suggest that when we make a point of people not being allowed to comment on patterns like that, which they observe and are real, we are hiding something, and setting traps too, for those who don't have the right background that allows them to recognize it is a thing not to be mentioned.

I don't think it's really your place to try and correct her either.

I dont think "generational" can be used as an excuse anymore. Those people were our grandparents and they're all mostly dead now. Pensioners these days are my parents age. If they're racist it's because they are racists. Nothing to do with their generation.

I’m your typical blue-eyed blonde middle-aged woman. For some reason people feel comfortable sharing their racist rhetoric with me. I cut them dead by showing photos of my brother. My father’s side was French/Portuguese/Jamaican. I didn’t inherit the melanin, but he did. Every divisive comment makes my skin crawl, be it racist, homophobic, right wing, you name it. I just can’t continue to dialogue with people like that.
I would let her know that you can’t continue to listen to those comments. I do wonder if her intention is to appear “cool” rather than openly racist by using those very outdated (horrible) terms. I would ask her why she does it and see how she justifies it.
”Julie, why do you call German people Krauts?”
Listen to her answer and say “Well I’d really prefer it if you didn’t please. It’s really quite racist.”
This is you gently putting her on notice.

So long as she is paying for the service I couldn't give a nuns left tit.

It's not our job to 'educate people'. She's a grown adult, she's not stupid she's just racist. If you dislike being around her enough to lose the money, fine. But don't waste of your breath trying to make a cat into a dog.

I feel you OP. I had a colleague who would refer to getting a Chinese takeaway as getting a Chinky. She clearly loved Chinese food and I don't think she meant to be offensive. When a few of us brought it up that it was an offensive turn it didn't go well, she was highly offended and kind of mad and kept saying 'it's fine, everyone calls them that.' It's not easy to be the messenger, it's up to you if you want to put the time and energy in to educating her- no judgement from me if you'd rather call it quits on the lessons.

@HeadacheEarthquake well if you’re part French then you should know that it was the French aristocrats around the time of the revolution that called the French peasants Les grenouillère ( the frogs). As the aristocrats fled to London the British nobles took up the name too and it became widespread during the Napoleonic wars.

The French older generation still call English Les rosbifs.
Krauts is from the consumption of sauerkraut.
Whilst I wouldn’t say these things myself they're not racist imo.

I would have an issue with referring to a coloured person on the front of a book. That’s offensive. And deeply racist.

You are a professional offering a service to a client. This relationship is not like that of a doctor or therapist. If the relationship causes distress, and it certainly looks that way, you have every right to adjust your schedule.

I'd drop her as a client before the urge to drop her out a window took over.

I agree that there might be an opportunity here. I know it's not your job to educate her about this sort of thing, but given that there's a chance she's not realizing how offensive she's being, I think it would be worth gently but firmly explaining to her how uncomfortable her choice of words is making you feel, and why. If she doesn't take it well, so be it, but at least you've tried. And if she takes it on the chin then great, she'll hopefully be less offensive moving forward with both you and in her general life, and the conversation was worth it. Sorry you're having to deal with this though

You could, rather than dropping this silly old(er) person, choose to be inclusive and celebrate their diversity of language and opinion.

It works both ways, you know.

Oh, and us Brits have been saying rude things about the French for over 1,000 years. With all that practice, we’ve become quite good at it.

But we love you really. Vive La France!

You can keep yourself in a protective bubble where people have learnt to use the right language or you can continue the lessons and not agree with the terminology she uses. I would continue the lessons, but then I work with teenagers and they don’t have much of a filter.

She sounds very elderly to me. No one I know uses words like that anymore. Can you not just repeat the correct word when you reply taking your time to say it or just say 'I always thought the correct word was ,,,,,; If she is bright enough to do piano, then she is bright enough to pick up your nuance. All this modern 'drop them' for being what they are, is a bit basic. Isn't it up to you to make a difference: 1. by helping her to enjoy her piano. 2. by enlightening her with soft power. However, if she is obnoxious, then good reason to go!

If it offends you personally, I think you need to talk to her. Esp the bit that you are half French etc. Then see how things go. You will either continue to teach her, or not depending on her reaction going forward. NB I nearly lost a bunch of long term friends over Brexit rehtoric.

It sounds like you could kindly point out that her language needs 'updating' a bit and she might appreciate your help with that. Perhaps even add an extra 'vocabulary' lesson to the others?

It’s generational to the extent that those are terms you would have heard a lot in the 1970s. Some people live narrow lives and don’t “grow”, she may just be stuck in bad habits. It sounds like it’s the language that needs correcting, not necessarily any underlying prejudice.

I would correct it every time, “French, not Frogs, Marjorie!” “you can’t say that about people Marjorie!” She’ll either become more aware and stop saying these things or take offence and drop the lessons.

My dh is French. We are all dual because of Brexit. We have also lived in Germany. In the mid noughties we moved to Belgium from France. The Belgian jokes about the French were epic. I think sometimes political correctness can go too far. Dh dd and I all banter about the Brits / French. Dd supports France for football / rugby.

That said, this is familial in jokes and I would be deeply concerned about the comments surrounding race. Putting this altogether I think I would have a gentle conversation with her about how language has changed and perhaps someone less kind than you may be nasty to her because of the way she is speaking about other people. If you make it about her rather than you, it is more likely to elicit change.

You don't have to teach a student who makes racist comments.

I would call the student out next time and ask her whether she realises that her comment is racist?
I would then put in writing a warning that she will be expelled from your class if she is to make further racist comments. Include a note listing the racist comments she has made and tell her that at your school, they are unacceptable.

So, communication and a warning - then tell her you are not willing to teach her any more.

Pretty sure the first thing everyone would have asked is "well what exactly did she say because without knowing we can't advise you correctly"