Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that now is the time for powerful voices to speak up…

289 replies

Alifemoreordinary123 · 20/02/2025 20:14

I’m not highly educated or hugely politically savvy. But like many people, I’m horrified by Trump and Musk’s approach, propaganda and ideology. It’s increasingly possibly they will take the world to a very dark place. I keep thinking, surely there are enough counter powers - people with power and influence, leaders from business, media, the arts, politics across the Western world to try and counter some of their rhetoric. I’m not naive to the immense power they hold, but surely reason, sense, logic and hope will win over?

OP posts:
neverthelastone · 20/02/2025 21:55

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

madamweb · 20/02/2025 21:56

rabbitwoman · 20/02/2025 21:39

@ThenUm he seems to have listened and learnt. He's a bit more dignified. I think he sees his political comeback as vindication and old Trump may have gloated, but this Trump is a bit more humble.

He takes so much criticism and ridicule and contempt on the chin, but I think because he is confident of public support behind him, and the comedians and actors and pop stars who take aim are out of touch with the real lives of the voters. He's done something amazing, whatever you think of his politics, and he's gracious in his victory.

And no matter how much anyone disagrees and voiced their feelings, the people voted for him. Do you agree with democracy or not? Or do you think only people who pass some kind of IQ test should be able to vote?

Ummm. Trump isn't even in control. He's doing what Musk /Putin tell him to do. He's a puppet dictator.

But it's sweet that you think he's in charge. Although somewhat staggering you think he is dignified.

Presumably you are fine with all the wildly unconstitutional/illegal things that Musk /Doge /Trump are doing? Just trivia I guess?

madamweb · 20/02/2025 21:57

rabbitwoman · 20/02/2025 21:39

@ThenUm he seems to have listened and learnt. He's a bit more dignified. I think he sees his political comeback as vindication and old Trump may have gloated, but this Trump is a bit more humble.

He takes so much criticism and ridicule and contempt on the chin, but I think because he is confident of public support behind him, and the comedians and actors and pop stars who take aim are out of touch with the real lives of the voters. He's done something amazing, whatever you think of his politics, and he's gracious in his victory.

And no matter how much anyone disagrees and voiced their feelings, the people voted for him. Do you agree with democracy or not? Or do you think only people who pass some kind of IQ test should be able to vote?

Ummm. Trump isn't even in control. He's doing what Musk /Putin tell him to do. He's a puppet dictator.

But it's sweet that you think he's in charge. Although somewhat staggering you think he is dignified.

Presumably you are fine with all the wildly unconstitutional/illegal things that Musk /Doge /Trump are doing? Just trivia I guess?

ThenUm · 20/02/2025 21:58

BIossomtoes · 20/02/2025 21:49

The working class thought they’d be saved and they haven’t. We are facing huge squeezes on living costs, on top of: job freezes, redundancies, wage stagnation, etc. People don’t feel heard

Like the 1930s. Facism wasn’t the answer then and it isn’t now.

💯

Andwhoisasking · 20/02/2025 21:58

Whimsicalgrape · 20/02/2025 21:54

The "far left" were not in power 5-6 years ago. Wtf are you on?

Did I say they were? No. It’s not my fault you don’t understand the nuances of history.

ThenUm · 20/02/2025 22:00

Andwhoisasking · 20/02/2025 21:58

Did I say they were? No. It’s not my fault you don’t understand the nuances of history.

Rude

rabbitwoman · 20/02/2025 22:00

I saw some very dangerous and absolutely crazy ideologies take hold in education - I work in a school. I was given lesson plans showing that if girls wanted to cut their hair they were boys, and that George Floyd was murdered because he was black. Noone said a word when kids started to come into school wearing cat ears and pony tails, and despite there being readily available evidence that Iamne Khalif was a man he was still being reported by the BBC as a woman, and a marginalised one at that.

I blundered quite unsuspectingly into a conversation on Gaza - no expert am I, but I was amazed at how people were angrily and vehemently calling me a Nazi at the same time as supporting people who kidnapped and murdered Israelis. Honestly, it was baffling to me.

And we aren't chained to the BBC or the guardian or even the times or the mail now for information on which to form our opinions. I read, and listened, and frankly I think they are all a bunch of liars. I have faith and confidence in a very few independent journalists and commentators. They inform, present evidence, listen and consider, they don't align strongly with a tribe, they are respectful to people with opposite views and challenge those who they do agree with.

People change their minds when given decent arguments that hold water after respectful debate, they change their minds when given evidence and facts, and I see a lot of lying, obverscation and downright bullying from people I previously aligned with.

The same as millions of others, I will bet.

You want the pendulum to start swinging back the other way? Bloody well listen. Don't call me an idiot. Even if I didn't have an elevated IQ, I won't be won over by people telling me I am stupid and I should shit up and just think and do what they tell me.

Whimsicalgrape · 20/02/2025 22:03

Andwhoisasking · 20/02/2025 21:58

Did I say they were? No. It’s not my fault you don’t understand the nuances of history.

It's not my fault you don't articulate well when you keep referring to the "far left" in your posts even though the UK hasn't had a "far left" government in my lifetime. Not my fault you can't grasp that. If you didn't feel heard you should have written to your local MP assuming you live in the UK or set up your own petition or campaigned or whatever.

Reetpetitenot · 20/02/2025 22:08

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Aren't they just.

neverthelastone · 20/02/2025 22:08

rabbitwoman · 20/02/2025 22:00

I saw some very dangerous and absolutely crazy ideologies take hold in education - I work in a school. I was given lesson plans showing that if girls wanted to cut their hair they were boys, and that George Floyd was murdered because he was black. Noone said a word when kids started to come into school wearing cat ears and pony tails, and despite there being readily available evidence that Iamne Khalif was a man he was still being reported by the BBC as a woman, and a marginalised one at that.

I blundered quite unsuspectingly into a conversation on Gaza - no expert am I, but I was amazed at how people were angrily and vehemently calling me a Nazi at the same time as supporting people who kidnapped and murdered Israelis. Honestly, it was baffling to me.

And we aren't chained to the BBC or the guardian or even the times or the mail now for information on which to form our opinions. I read, and listened, and frankly I think they are all a bunch of liars. I have faith and confidence in a very few independent journalists and commentators. They inform, present evidence, listen and consider, they don't align strongly with a tribe, they are respectful to people with opposite views and challenge those who they do agree with.

People change their minds when given decent arguments that hold water after respectful debate, they change their minds when given evidence and facts, and I see a lot of lying, obverscation and downright bullying from people I previously aligned with.

The same as millions of others, I will bet.

You want the pendulum to start swinging back the other way? Bloody well listen. Don't call me an idiot. Even if I didn't have an elevated IQ, I won't be won over by people telling me I am stupid and I should shit up and just think and do what they tell me.

I too think that gender ideology is stupid and idiotic. Pro-Hamas nonsense too. That doesn’t mean I have to think Trump is a good thing. He’s probably a far bigger danger to the world than anything else right now.

Much as I hate pronoun nonsense, you’ve got to have your priorities wrong if you think throwing your lot in with liars and dictators is better. Trump and Putin will wreck the postwar peace and democratic rule of law we have maintained for eighty years. You want Russian jackboots in Europe again and this time the US cheering them on?

rabbitwoman · 20/02/2025 22:13

I said trump seems 'a little more dignified' than he was before and I gave a reason. And you didn't read what I said and went straight to telling me I was an idiot and hadn't seen his speeches and all the crazy things he has said.....

And I think that proves my point.

David Lammy called me a dinosaur, hoarding rights. Keir starmer told me I shouldn't say only women have a cervix. I get safeguarding training on how to spot FGM, forced marriages, how to spot CSA, but heaven forbid anyone should even mention grooming gangs.

Should I vote for them anyway? Despite the contempt they have for me?

neverthelastone · 20/02/2025 22:14

And we aren't chained to the BBC or the guardian or even the times or the mail now for information on which to form our opinions.

Sure. Now, millions of people can beam fact-free conspiracist nonsense straight into their brains from social media without a shred of the merest fact-checking getting in the way.

Sure, the BBC and the Guardian have their issues with gender/Palestine (I don’t read either any more). The Telegraph can be a foaming mass of Reform gubbins. But that doesn’t make the absolute lying nonsense churning around the rest of the internet any better. It’s far worse.

Only the terminally gullible would think that a great antidote to the mainstream media is the sheer idiocy that makes up the average social media “opinions”.

Whimsicalgrape · 20/02/2025 22:15

rabbitwoman · 20/02/2025 22:13

I said trump seems 'a little more dignified' than he was before and I gave a reason. And you didn't read what I said and went straight to telling me I was an idiot and hadn't seen his speeches and all the crazy things he has said.....

And I think that proves my point.

David Lammy called me a dinosaur, hoarding rights. Keir starmer told me I shouldn't say only women have a cervix. I get safeguarding training on how to spot FGM, forced marriages, how to spot CSA, but heaven forbid anyone should even mention grooming gangs.

Should I vote for them anyway? Despite the contempt they have for me?

But to go from "being a socialist at heart" to admiring someone who gives zero fucks about anyone but himself...?

neverthelastone · 20/02/2025 22:20

rabbitwoman · 20/02/2025 22:13

I said trump seems 'a little more dignified' than he was before and I gave a reason. And you didn't read what I said and went straight to telling me I was an idiot and hadn't seen his speeches and all the crazy things he has said.....

And I think that proves my point.

David Lammy called me a dinosaur, hoarding rights. Keir starmer told me I shouldn't say only women have a cervix. I get safeguarding training on how to spot FGM, forced marriages, how to spot CSA, but heaven forbid anyone should even mention grooming gangs.

Should I vote for them anyway? Despite the contempt they have for me?

No, I’ve read your “reason”, and I’ve seen a lot of Trump’s recent speeches and appearances and they are even less dignified and humble than the last time he was around. What on earth do you think is humble about them? Was it the calling himself a king? Was it the threatening of US allies? Or the bits about tariffs?

It’s possible to dislike fact-free fantasy nonsense about gender, and also when it comes in the form of lying shysters who’ve traded on popular ignorance, you know!

rabbitwoman · 20/02/2025 22:21

Well, there you have it, @Whimsicalgrape .

Maybe I am no longer a socialist. Maybe I am now just interested in myself and will vote accordingly.

Like 77m Americans.

Persuade me otherwise without calling me stupid, or a bigot, or a Nazi. Tell me you have listened to my concerns about women's rights, and child safeguarding, and immigration.

Then you will win me back and hopefully, enough of those 77m Americans to make a difference.

username299 · 20/02/2025 22:23

Whimsicalgrape · 20/02/2025 22:15

But to go from "being a socialist at heart" to admiring someone who gives zero fucks about anyone but himself...?

They all say that. "I voted left from when I was an embryo. I'm an intelligent, well read individual but people keep telling me I'm thick as pig shit because I agree with authoritarianism. Far right is meaningless now. I blame the left, they made me do it. Fascists!"

neverthelastone · 20/02/2025 22:27

rabbitwoman · 20/02/2025 22:21

Well, there you have it, @Whimsicalgrape .

Maybe I am no longer a socialist. Maybe I am now just interested in myself and will vote accordingly.

Like 77m Americans.

Persuade me otherwise without calling me stupid, or a bigot, or a Nazi. Tell me you have listened to my concerns about women's rights, and child safeguarding, and immigration.

Then you will win me back and hopefully, enough of those 77m Americans to make a difference.

You think Trump’s for women’s rights and child safeguarding? The man who was friends with Epstein and “grabs them by the pussy” — not to mention his recurrent settlements and court cases for sexual harassment?

As for immigrants — is your job in a school under threat from the Mexicans? US immigration is relevant to UK schools?

Come on - you know quite well that Trumpism is a dangerous nonsense. People aren’t obliged to swing from one idiocy straight over to another.

wholettheturnipsburn · 20/02/2025 22:28

Ablondiebutagoody · 20/02/2025 20:19

Trump is just withdrawing the US from (expensive) stuff that he doesn't think they should be involved in. Totally fair enough. Every other country in the World can step in to fill the void if they want to.

If that was all he was doing then no one would give a fuck. They'd probably throw a goodbye party

But he's actively cosying up to a war criminal and condemning people to death under occupation by said war criminal

rabbitwoman · 20/02/2025 22:29

'Sure. Now, millions of people can beam fact-free conspiracist nonsense straight into their brains from social media without a shred of the merest fact-checking getting in the way.'

And if this is the case, @neverthelastone ,how do you know which ones have integrity? How do you know you haven't been lied to and manipulated? Because let me tell you, those fact-free conspiracists persuaded millions of you that sterilising gay autistic children was the new civil rights movement of the age! That male rapists should be imprisoned with vulnerable women!

I am angry about that, and what it cost me. Friends, family, time and energy. And it was beamed unchecked straight into the brains of our kids and believed by people I should have been able to trust, so I am looking elsewhere now for political alignment.

Give me reassurance that it won't take hold again and I will reconsider next time around.

Whimsicalgrape · 20/02/2025 22:30

rabbitwoman · 20/02/2025 22:21

Well, there you have it, @Whimsicalgrape .

Maybe I am no longer a socialist. Maybe I am now just interested in myself and will vote accordingly.

Like 77m Americans.

Persuade me otherwise without calling me stupid, or a bigot, or a Nazi. Tell me you have listened to my concerns about women's rights, and child safeguarding, and immigration.

Then you will win me back and hopefully, enough of those 77m Americans to make a difference.

Oh I wouldn't call you Nazi, stupid or a bigot unless I genuinely thought you were those things - in that case I wouldn't mince my words about what I thought. But since I don't know you I can't know these things about you. So no need to be hostile with me.

Sure I'd be willing to listen to views on people's thoughts on immigration, women's rights and child safeguarding. I'd also hope that goes reciprocal too. And when facts brought to light they are not dismissed. Tribalism doesn't get anybody anywhere. Much like the above pp whom keeps quoting "far left" which has irked me more than it should do. Not least because it's tribalistic language used to shout down an opposing view - much like that poster objects to themselves.

rabbitwoman · 20/02/2025 22:33

'Sure I'd be willing to listen to views on people's thoughts on immigration, women's rights and child safeguarding. I'd also hope that goes reciprocal too.'

But it wasn't, @Whimsicalgrape . And now it's too late. Trump got in.

Next time? Let's hope it is reciprocal.

Azdcgbjml · 20/02/2025 22:36

rabbitwoman · 20/02/2025 21:39

@ThenUm he seems to have listened and learnt. He's a bit more dignified. I think he sees his political comeback as vindication and old Trump may have gloated, but this Trump is a bit more humble.

He takes so much criticism and ridicule and contempt on the chin, but I think because he is confident of public support behind him, and the comedians and actors and pop stars who take aim are out of touch with the real lives of the voters. He's done something amazing, whatever you think of his politics, and he's gracious in his victory.

And no matter how much anyone disagrees and voiced their feelings, the people voted for him. Do you agree with democracy or not? Or do you think only people who pass some kind of IQ test should be able to vote?

Gracious, dignified and humble?

Not the adjectives I would use to describe Trump...

To think that now is the time for powerful voices to speak up…
madamweb · 20/02/2025 22:37

rabbitwoman · 20/02/2025 22:21

Well, there you have it, @Whimsicalgrape .

Maybe I am no longer a socialist. Maybe I am now just interested in myself and will vote accordingly.

Like 77m Americans.

Persuade me otherwise without calling me stupid, or a bigot, or a Nazi. Tell me you have listened to my concerns about women's rights, and child safeguarding, and immigration.

Then you will win me back and hopefully, enough of those 77m Americans to make a difference.

Do you have any understanding what Trump and chums are doing to womens rights?

Fine come up with other reasons but it's an astonishing take to think Donald "pussy grabber" Trump and Elon "13 babies by 6 different women" Musk are going to be helping women. Most women I know in America are genuinely scared right now

Whimsicalgrape · 20/02/2025 22:39

rabbitwoman · 20/02/2025 22:33

'Sure I'd be willing to listen to views on people's thoughts on immigration, women's rights and child safeguarding. I'd also hope that goes reciprocal too.'

But it wasn't, @Whimsicalgrape . And now it's too late. Trump got in.

Next time? Let's hope it is reciprocal.

Well I like to think I do listen to people irl irrespective of their views even if I disagree with them. So I won't be held to blame for people lurching towards the right and it all going horribly wrong.

Azdcgbjml · 20/02/2025 22:40

rabbitwoman · 20/02/2025 22:13

I said trump seems 'a little more dignified' than he was before and I gave a reason. And you didn't read what I said and went straight to telling me I was an idiot and hadn't seen his speeches and all the crazy things he has said.....

And I think that proves my point.

David Lammy called me a dinosaur, hoarding rights. Keir starmer told me I shouldn't say only women have a cervix. I get safeguarding training on how to spot FGM, forced marriages, how to spot CSA, but heaven forbid anyone should even mention grooming gangs.

Should I vote for them anyway? Despite the contempt they have for me?

I don't know where you're getting your safeguarding training but mine has always explicitly mentioned grooming gangs alongside county lines!

Swipe left for the next trending thread